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X.Org Foundation Loses Its 501(c)(3) Status

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  • #16
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    I think the answer would be "doing what they're supposed to" -- organizing conferences to make plans & communicate progress/ideas for the graphics stack, supporting volunteer developers to work on important parts of the stack, etc...
    They can afford to do all that but can't afford 1 admin to take care of the bills? Seems like misplaced priorities. And if they can't afford both, like i said, they should dissolve.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      They can afford to do all that but can't afford 1 admin to take care of the bills?
      Yes, as all that only runs around $10,000-$20,000 per year.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by alanc View Post
        Yes, as all that only runs around $10,000-$20,000 per year.
        Except it doesn't only run that, does it? Or we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

        I honestly find this very offensive. It's like you are arguing that you should be able to do this because you want to, and silly little things like following the law and paying debts don't apply to you.

        It's really obvious why this is happening, and continuing to happen, if everyone involved has this kind of viewpoint. And I think you should be ashamed.

        If you can't afford to buy something, don't buy it. If you can't afford to run the foundation, stop trying to run it. Don't pull this crap and then pooh-pooh anyone who complains by saying it's too expensive to do the right thing.
        Last edited by smitty3268; 08-24-2013, 03:03 AM.

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        • #19
          Just shut all development down, everyone should use windows or mac anyways.

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          • #20
            All of this proves that the X.org foundation requires a healthy opposition, as otherwise nothing happens. Luckily we, in the meantime, have public records, and the actual composition of the board is no longer a bunch of self-servers from the same political group, like it was several years ago. But still, without more scrutiny the foundation still is a shambles.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by libv View Post
              All of this proves that the X.org foundation requires a healthy opposition, as otherwise nothing happens. Luckily we, in the meantime, have public records, and the actual composition of the board is no longer a bunch of self-servers from the same political group, like it was several years ago. But still, without more scrutiny the foundation still is a shambles.
              They may not be great at paperwork, but other than that how are they a shambles? Aren't they doing what bridgman said:
              "doing what they're supposed to" -- organizing conferences to make plans & communicate progress/ideas for the graphics stack, supporting volunteer developers to work on important parts of the stack, etc...
              ?

              How does this show that they need competition?

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              • #22
                This is fucking sad. Filing _one_ piece of paperwork, once a year, with a notice given to you several months in advance, is not rocket science. Failing to do that on time, several times in a row, is plain inexcusable.

                Even worse, not paying on time... Seriously.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by alanc View Post
                  There is not enough money in the foundation to hire such people, and no volunteers stepping forward to it other than the developers.
                  Talking about what other people should do is much easier than stepping forward to do it.
                  There has never been any attempt to raise money from the community. Its clear from threads here, at tarceri's recent fund rasier, that there are plenty of people ready to chip in. hooking up with an existing foundation sounds like the best plan to me.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by archibald View Post
                    They may not be great at paperwork, but other than that how are they a shambles? Aren't they doing what bridgman said: ?

                    How does this show that they need competition?
                    First off, i organize the Xorg devroom at FOSDEM, and there is no involvement of the foundation on that whatsoever. This ever since daniel stone complained about the plans to use 25USD per head for a social event. This was then the only cost then incurred by the foundation, as the fosdem organizers provide a devroom for free.

                    Secondly, as the originator, but in the end just co-organizer of XDC 2012, i know that the foundation only covered travel cost for certain members. The venue itself was fully sponsored by SuSE. And on social events, each paid his own expenses.

                    Finally, i never said that they need competition. They need opposition. They need to feel scrutinized so that cock-ups like this are less likely.

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                    • #25
                      "I was taken by surprize that the IRS hit us so rudely."
                      Yeah, when I forget to file my taxes for 5 years I hate it when the IRS comes for me.
                      How rude of them.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Siuoq View Post
                        nobody wants to use a display-server made by a for-profit company
                        You're right. I'm sure no one will ever use Mir from the for-profit Canonical, nor Android SurfaceFlinger from the for-profit Google, nor any display system made by the very very for-profit Apple or Microsoft. Well, maybe a few people, but not more than a billion or so.

                        Fortunately, they won't be asked to. X.Org remains a non-profit, the 501(c)3 status is what distinguishes a charity, for which US taxpayers can take a deduction for their donations, from other forms of non-profit organization.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                          I honestly find this very offensive.
                          Good, then maybe you'll consider not attacking volunteers without having all the facts in the future. If you have no idea what the Foundation has been doing, how can you possibly be qualified to comment on what the Foundation has been doing? (I know commenting without understanding is a hallmark of the Phoronix forums, but I remain hopeful that someday intelligent life will be found on the Internet.) And why should you even care so much to be offended? Have you contributed your time or money to the X.Org Foundation?

                          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                          At this point maybe the foundation just needs to dissolve.
                          Perhaps you didn't catch the implications of the last paragraph of the article, but that is exactly what the Board is considering - dissolving the foundation as a separate entity, and turning all remaining assets over to a larger 501(c)3 FOSS organization which has the resources & expertise to handle the financial management for us, while letting us continue to concentrate on what's needed for the free graphics stack.
                          Last edited by alanc; 08-24-2013, 09:56 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by alanc View Post
                            Good, then maybe you'll consider not attacking volunteers without having all the facts in the future. If you have no idea what the Foundation has been doing, how can you possibly be qualified to comment on what the Foundation has been doing? (I know commenting without understanding is a hallmark of the Phoronix forums, but I remain hopeful that someday intelligent life will be found on the Internet.) And why should you even care so much to be offended? Have you contributed your time or money to the X.Org Foundation?
                            I'm sorry i find it offensive that you are breaking the law, expect to get a special sweet deal from the IRS, and show no remorse at all about doing it.

                            Actually, no. No I don't. It's not my behavior that's wrong, here, it's yours.
                            Last edited by smitty3268; 08-24-2013, 10:31 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                              Don't attack me because you can't handle the truth. People should be going to jail for this. Not paying taxes is illegal. It's not my fault you apparently don't care about following the law.
                              It's a non-profit. They don't have to pay taxes unless they're conducting a "regular business" under the same umbrella (which AFAIK X.Org is not) and until recently (~5 yrs) apparently they didn't have to file tax returns either.

                              It does seem that tax returns were required for the last few years, however. That said, it might be better to find out what the status of the tax returns was and maybe why they hadn't been filed yet rather than assuming "they don't care".

                              This might be an internet forum, but we don't *have* to act like wild animals

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                              • #30
                                The status of the 501c3 is lost because we (me) failed to file the 3 past years' tax returns on time. Note that we've Never filed returns since our first re-organization to the LLC in 2005. I was taken by surprize that the IRS hit us so rudely.
                                This guy is hilarious. They should make him head of the treasury of Greece . Then he can fuck up all he wants, the rest of europe will bail them out anyways.

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