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  • X.Org 7.8 Isn't Actively Being Pursued

    Phoronix: X.Org 7.8 Isn't Actively Being Pursued

    While there's an X.Org 7.8 Wiki page that mentions planned features like XWayland integration and video driver hot-plugging, there isn't active work towards putting out the X.Org 7.8 katamari nor specifically on delivering these mentioned features...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQzMzU

  • #2
    Glad to hear it, the sooner I can have a Linux system with no Xorg at all the better. It's entirely correct that the lion's share of effort goes into Wayland and the surrounding ecosystem required to get Wayland working.

    Working on Xorg now would be like rearranging the layout of the deck chairs on the Titanic. All we need is the required XWayland support, and any serious bugfixes. Not new features. Thus begins the long-awaited X voyage into legacy status.

    This policy seems entirely sensible to me.

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    • #3
      that depends on how long it would take for everyone to port their stuff to gtk3 or qt5. my estimation is that it would years upon years. and that means having a crappy x stack running inside wayland or making x better.

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      • #4
        Apps like Firefox and Libre/Open Office will be a problem as firefox still uses GTK2 on LInux and as VCL isn't wayland ready.

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        • #5
          I hope XWayland will become so dominant that X.Org will eventually be reduced into a Wayland back-end completely. XWayland as it stands right now is this minimal fix\hack to pair the old horse with the newer Wayland and get backwards compatibility done with the least amount of effort. Maybe something like the RDP or VNC backends... Just the functionality required instead of all the legacy code.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Thaodan View Post
            Apps like Firefox and Libre/Open Office will be a problem as firefox still uses GTK2 on LInux and as VCL isn't wayland ready.
            does the linux version of vlc use qt4?

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            • #7
              For those who didn't read or didn't understand the article, work continues on the individual X modules from X.Org, including the upcoming Xorg server 1.15 release and the actively maintained drivers. There's just no one who is actively working on the "katamari" releases to roll them all up into one unified set, since so few people use those instead of the individual module releases. (It's not a policy decision as much as a lack of volunteers. Even before I stepped down from the release manager role they'd been coming farther and farther apart, with little complaint.)

              And while all Linux users may need is Xwayland and the X libraries needed for legacy clients to talk to it, X has always been cross-platform, and non-Linux users will be using the rest of X11 for a while still.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by garegin View Post
                that depends on how long it would take for everyone to port their stuff to gtk3 or qt5. my estimation is that it would years upon years. and that means having a crappy x stack running inside wayland or making x better.
                I'm only using KDE applications, Steam and Firefox. KDE should run perfectly fine without X in upcoming months. When comes to Firefox I can give up on it and switch to some Qt5 based browser. An only problem will be with steam, but rather than running entire X, using xwayland seems to be a way smarter idea.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Thaodan View Post
                  Apps like Firefox and Libre/Open Office will be a problem as firefox still uses GTK2 on LInux and as VCL isn't wayland ready.
                  So QupZilla and Calligra will be happy about this.

                  Originally posted by garegin View Post
                  does the linux version of vlc use qt4?
                  VCL, not VLC. VLC is the toolkit used by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
                    VCL, not VLC. VCL is the toolkit used by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.
                    Fixed that for you

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                      KDE should run perfectly fine without X in upcoming months. .
                      how so. they would have to port everything to qt5, which will take years. until then its xwayland.

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                      • #12
                        Hah, that's about what I expected. The X katamari versions have been following a typical square-root curve up to now (I had a graph made for that somewhere), and it seems that the trend is not going to change any time soon.

                        EDIT: Ah, there we go:


                        Originally posted by garegin View Post
                        that depends on how long it would take for everyone to port their stuff to gtk3 or qt5. my estimation is that it would years upon years. and that means having a crappy x stack running inside wayland or making x better.
                        You can't make X that much better at this point. That's the major reason why Wayland exists, after all.
                        Last edited by GreatEmerald; 08-11-2013, 05:59 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          how so. they would have to port everything to qt5, which will take years. until then its xwayland.
                          No... No they won't take years and years, unlike the Qt3->Qt4 switchover Qt5 is mostly source compatible with Qt4, and there's plenty of instances where to port you only need to recompile the code to make it use Qt5. The real issue and work is KF5 because a lot of the KDE libraries are/have been merged into Qt5, and KDE applications need a KF5 release unless they want to port to using pure Qt (which would be a lot of work), before they can go to using Qt5. So no Qt5 is not the porting issue, KF5 is, but I don't really expect it'll take that long for everything to port a year or two max once KF5 is released, for applications that are waiting until a release to start that work.

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                          • #14
                            great progress

                            This is great news all over - the X team will probably pick a stable (enough) release for X11, patch it up enough to hopefully not have any major holes/showstoppers in it, and shelf all X development permanently while in the meantime they refocus on getting X working flawlessly on XWayland - and I'm sure they won't mind if Canonical borrows their work there too for XMir . I think that's pretty much it for the X and XWayland effort ... the rest of the work will fall on the hands of the KDE/KWin and Gnome shell folks whom will be probably all too happy to get Wayland as a baseline instead of a 30 year old legacy. While at it, I'd borrow any and all usable X code, at least conceptually if not direct code ripping, and use that to aid Wayland in whatever might be missing, maybe input handling or what not, I haven't been monitoring the Wayland issues or its mailing list lately....

                            A year or so from now, we'll be enjoying the god of the desktop and the server - Linux and Wayland with its gnomes, kwins, etc - all usable, snappy, fast and pretty looking

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                              No... No they won't take years and years, unlike the Qt3->Qt4 switchover Qt5 is mostly source compatible with Qt4, and there's plenty of instances where to port you only need to recompile the code to make it use Qt5. The real issue and work is KF5 because a lot of the KDE libraries are/have been merged into Qt5, and KDE applications need a KF5 release unless they want to port to using pure Qt (which would be a lot of work), before they can go to using Qt5. So no Qt5 is not the porting issue, KF5 is, but I don't really expect it'll take that long for everything to port a year or two max once KF5 is released, for applications that are waiting until a release to start that work.
                              And for those interested in the KDE 5 Frameworks status:

                              http://community.kde.org/Frameworks/Epics

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