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Ubuntu Allegedly To Have Its Own X, Wayland Alternative

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  • Ubuntu Allegedly To Have Its Own X, Wayland Alternative

    Phoronix: Ubuntu Allegedly To Have Its Own X, Wayland Alternative

    There's been talk already this morning in the forums, Twitter, and via email to Phoronix that Canonical is allegedly developing its own display server rather than using X.Org/X11 or Wayland...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI5MjI

  • #2
    He's the community manager, what do you expect. He probably wrote it while sipping Starbucks and tapping away on his iPad.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by phoronix View Post
      Phoronix: Ubuntu Allegedly To Have Its Own X, Wayland Alternative

      There's been talk already this morning in the forums, Twitter, and via email to Phoronix that Canonical is allegedly developing its own display server rather than using X.Org/X11 or Wayland...

      http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI5MjI
      So Canonical is finally cutting the last ties to the FOSS community. It's now become a no-cross-distro-communication, NIH, CLA, we-don't-want-contributors, behind-closed-doors company.
      Last edited by 0xCAFE; 02-04-2013, 06:46 AM.

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      • #4
        They've been working on Unity/Compiz for years, and all they have to show for is a barely usable software still plagued with major bugs.

        These years Ubuntu is taking a lot more than it can chew. Every new project they release is a half-assed last-minute implementation.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by talvik View Post
          Every new project they release is a half-assed last-minute implementation.
          Yeah. They are keeping a very bad track record. First they spent 4 years building trust and now they managed to burn it all. It is really sad to see such a large portion of the community to fail this hard. History tells it is hard to recover from stuff like this.

          Ubuntu Uninstall Fests anyone?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by talvik View Post
            They've been working on Unity/Compiz for years, and all they have to show for is a barely usable software still plagued with major bugs.

            These years Ubuntu is taking a lot more than it can chew. Every new project they release is a half-assed last-minute implementation.
            "But, but, but ... we do testing and CI!"

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            • #7
              Michael is probably right in that canonical does not have the manpower to fully develop a display server from scrach, neither would that help them in any meaningful way, since it would be incompatible with everything under the sun. Thus, they will probably fork either wayland or android's DS. Since Ubutu is to be the same OS everywhere, the display server should be supported at the same time by SoCs drivers and desktop GPUs/APUs drivers.

              Wayland is currently supported only by intel's mesa driver maybe by the other gallium drivers. Android's DS is already well supported by SoCs drivers and intel's mesa driver, it should also not require much work to be suported by other gallium drivers.

              I would imagine that convincing amd and nvidia to port their blobs to android's DS would be much easier than to wayland, since they would also be supporting android at the same time, which is already pretty important for nvidia, and should be for amd, even though amd execs are pretty much only backing windows only right now.

              Considering that android's DS server probably lacks many features needed for desktop use, they would have to fork it to be able to include those features. Thus, a new display server.

              Obviously, it would require the porting of the toolkits/apps to this new DS, but that might be easier than porting drivers, and wayland also requires that anyway.

              Also, on the ubuntu phoneOS annoucement, it was stated that it would be able to use android drivers, AFAIK the only way to accomplish that is by using a DS compatible with android...

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              • #8
                Probably a missunderstanding

                Everything I've read up until now has said that Ubuntu want to turn compiz into a wayland compositor. Similar to how KDE plan to make kwin a Wayland compositor, while still also being an X11 WM. So you can either start them under X11 or Wayland.

                I would guess, 'not using Wayland' mean not using Weston; and implementing their own, mean their plans for compiz.

                I doubt any major desktop environment will be using Weston. It is after all, only a reference example.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 0xCAFE View Post
                  So Canonical is finally cutting the last ties to the FOSS community. It's now become a no-cross-distro-communication, NIH, CLA, we-don't-want-contributors, behind-closed-doors company.
                  Nonsense, compiz and unity are both free software.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wilfred View Post
                    Nonsense, compiz and unity are both free software.
                    That's not a contradiction to "no-cross-distro-communication, NIH, CLA, we-don't-want-contributors, behind-closed-doors" and having cut the ties to the FOSS community.
                    Last edited by 0xCAFE; 02-04-2013, 08:11 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Wayland

                      Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail has the latest version of Wayland / Weston.
                      You can run Weston both under X and under DRM/console.

                      To run on X, you run "weston", to run on DRM, you run it via "weston-launch", but you need to chmod +s the weston-launch binary first.

                      Then you need to set the GDK_BACKEND environmental variable to "wayland". Then you can run some GTK applications.
                      But you don't get window decorations, and only some GTK applications work, many don't, and even those who work many crash.

                      Some applications don't work unless you run them or weston itself via 'dbus-launch', such as gedit and gnome-terminal.
                      Run them via 'dbus-launch gedit', or 'dbus-launch weston-launch'.

                      Applications depending on X does not work, since XWayland is not yet merged in.

                      So basically you can try it out today, but many things don't work yet and there is still lots of development ahead that needs to be done.

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                      • #12
                        Three different servers. At least one must be 'the best'. Let the contest begin!

                        I do hope that this won't eternally fragment display management though...

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                        • #13
                          They might need something leaner/more optimized for their mobile versions of Ubuntu for phones and tablets. I assume this will be out with Ubuntu 14.04.

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                          • #14
                            I really hope this is just rumor or Ubuntu experimenting.. that would absolutely retarded if Ubuntu decided to make their own display server, especially when Wayland looks so good.
                            All they would achieve by doing this would be more Linux fragmentation making developers lives even harder. Then of course Steam would probably start targeting Ubuntu's half-assed Display Server, and every other Linux distro would have to do even more work to be able to play Steam games (my feeling is it would really dampen the momentum of Steam on Linux).

                            Jono must have just misspoke and meant Ubuntu would be using Wayland compositor (instead of Weston).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Krysto View Post
                              They might need something leaner/more optimized for their mobile versions of Ubuntu for phones and tablets. I assume this will be out with Ubuntu 14.04.
                              Wayland was designed with tablets and smartphones in mind. You can't get any leaner and lighter than passing buffer IDs around which is what Wayland is doing, if graphics drivers are of proper quality the ID refers to a buffer in GPU memory, you can't be more efficient than that. Not to mention Wayland also focuses on tear-free and color-correct graphics from the start.

                              Now, considering the average smartphone has about 2 cores, and 4-cores smartphones are on the way - it's literally paranoid to say it's got "too many" features for a smartphone or tablet, it's like 50K LOC.
                              Last edited by mark45; 02-04-2013, 11:06 AM.

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