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Ubuntu Allegedly To Have Its Own X, Wayland Alternative

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  • #16
    Originally posted by F i L View Post
    I really hope this is just rumor or Ubuntu experimenting.. that would absolutely retarded if Ubuntu decided to make their own display server, especially when Wayland looks so good.
    All they would achieve by doing this would be more Linux fragmentation making developers lives even harder. Then of course Steam would probably start targeting Ubuntu's half-assed Display Server, and every other Linux distro would have to do even more work to be able to play Steam games (my feeling is it would really dampen the momentum of Steam on Linux).

    Jono must have just misspoke and meant Ubuntu would be using Wayland compositor (instead of Weston).
    Someone with his name said it again on redit...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Krysto View Post
      They might need something leaner/more optimized for their mobile versions of Ubuntu for phones and tablets. I assume this will be out with Ubuntu 14.04.
      The funny thing is that wayland is an ok solution for mobile as it seems (Tizen etc). Its fine if they want to create their own ecosystem but canonical doesn't seem to have the power to pull this off.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by F i L View Post
        Jono must have just misspoke and meant Ubuntu would be using Wayland compositor (instead of Weston).
        Based on the comments he made on a popular Ubuntu fan site, regarding this topic, I'm pretty sure they're actually serious about this one. Throw in the fact that in the past ~18 months Canonical has gone absolutely batshit crazy, and this is pretty believable.

        I think Michael is right that Canonical doesn't have the resources to pull this one off, but actually having something that works well hasn't been a top priority as of late. So I don't think "working" is even a criteria for Canonical.

        There is absolutely no chance that Ubuntu makes anything more than insignificant inroads into the mobile space. It will have about as much marketshare in mobile as it does on the desktop. Except in the process they're blowing up the little desktop marketshare they have.

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        • #19
          I do not see a way Ubuntu could pull this off, and if they do, it would be really bad for everyone anyway.

          There is simply no way this can work. It is either a misunderstanding (and they are doing something more reasonable, like a special Wayland-optimised version of Unity or something), or they are going down in flames.

          Who would support this server anyway? Are they going to port all toolkits and apps to it themselves? Not in a million years.

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          • #20
            Well, if they do do this, I would actually not be terribly surprised, considering it is Canonical.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              It is either a misunderstanding (and they are doing something more reasonable, like a special Wayland-optimised version of Unity or something), or they are going down in flames.
              "As I mentioned in the videocast, the simple reality is that we have found that neither X nor Wayland is ideal for the convergence story we are working on with Ubuntu. This is a story that needs a really thin display server that is not just efficient and capable of delivering the Ubuntu experience on desktops, but also on more constrained devices such as phones, tablets and potentially other form factors too.

              Clearly X is not serving these needs today as well as we need it to, and while Wayland is an option for the future, it is not the only option.

              ...

              Trust me when I say that Canonical would rather not have to focus on additional engineering to deliver our vision, but what we also don't want to do is build around another solution that ultimately won't deliver what we need for this wider convergence vision. If we did that, we would end up in a similar place as we are now, depending on technology that weighs us down in functionality, performance and maintenance costs."

              http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/c...display-server Check out the comments section; he makes several posts.


              I don't doubt that they could come up with something for the mobile side. After all you have Android and webOS and all the other solutions that have made it easy for vendors to plug their drivers in. I suppose Canonical could do something similar, or reuse some of that code, or at least reuse the concept. But converting that to the desktop = disaster. No doubt about it.

              This "convergence story" which has become all the rage (Unity, Metro, GNOME Shell) is just dumb. There's a difference between providing seamless integration between a variety of devices and forcing a square peg into a round hole.

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              • #22
                Seems like Canonical can't find anything better to do than developing their own display server (as if Wayland isn't enough).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by johnc View Post
                  "As I mentioned in the videocast, the simple reality is that we have found that neither X nor Wayland is ideal for the convergence story we are working on with Ubuntu. This is a story that needs a really thin display server that is not just efficient and capable of delivering the Ubuntu experience on desktops, but also on more constrained devices such as phones, tablets and potentially other form factors too.

                  Clearly X is not serving these needs today as well as we need it to, and while Wayland is an option for the future, it is not the only option.

                  ...

                  Trust me when I say that Canonical would rather not have to focus on additional engineering to deliver our vision, but what we also don't want to do is build around another solution that ultimately won't deliver what we need for this wider convergence vision. If we did that, we would end up in a similar place as we are now, depending on technology that weighs us down in functionality, performance and maintenance costs."

                  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/c...display-server
                  OK, he's just talking bafflegab, like a typical boring PR whore. He gives no particular technical reasons against Wayland, only vague words about "maintenance, performance and functionality" which "weighs in" as if Canonical was a major upstream contributor to drivers, toolkits or to the Linux kernel, it is not, never was.
                  Last edited by mark45; 02-04-2013, 01:45 PM.

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                  • #24
                    why not wait till there's something to talk about

                    The one comment no one has quoted:

                    "Yikes, I guess the few minutes of my weekly Q&A hit the news."

                    I took the time to read the comments because i thought someone who actually knew anything might have said something worth reading. Turns out no.

                    Fact is, Jono merely mentioned that X wasn't good enough (news to nobody) and that they were evaluating different options (they'd be stupid not to). Nothing terribly new in fact, and certainly nothing worth getting hot and bothered. So why not wait till there's some actual information before having an opinion.

                    Keep in mind one thing however: Canonical employ intelligent and capable engineers. One expects that whatever decision they take, they'll have some fairly good reasons for it.
                    ( anticipating moans about them dropping Gnome shell for Unity, answer this question honestly - knowing their goal was to build the Unity experience, do you honestly think they could have done it while also aligning development with Gnome shell? (whether you like Unity or not is irrelevant) )

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                    • #25
                      jonobacon:

                      "I think you might be jumping the gun a little.

                      We haven't even announced our future plans for display management in Ubuntu, let alone (1) how much engineering is required to maintain our chosen solution (2) the work involved and the cadence in which we deliver it, and (3) the automated and manual testing required to maintain high quality.

                      I think these are all important discussions to have, but lets have them when more details are available rather then speculating around a minute of discussion from my weekly Q&A. I am working with our engineers to get this discussion going as quickly as we can, and I expect it can kick off in the next few weeks."


                      They haven't even begun to discuss this with the devs yet. Everyone is jumping the gun, lol.

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                      • #26
                        Wayland = good
                        Anything not wayland = bad (for the rest of human existence)

                        Is this correct?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by boast View Post
                          Wayland = good
                          Anything not wayland = bad (for the rest of human existence)

                          Is this correct?
                          People who look at the evidence and make thier own educated opinion good.

                          People who jump to conclusions and generalize without evidence or intelligent thought, bad.

                          FIFY

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                          • #28
                            Please roast the Bacon.

                            Someone really needs to remove this Jono Bacon as a "community manager" and I would say remove him completely and sap his influencing power by relegating him to a troll.

                            This is -EXACTLY- what Linux is suffering from - and I've said this over and over - the MASSIVE hubris coinciding with the "not invented here" syndrome.

                            If "Jono Bacon" was to actually LOOK and LISTEN before he opens his mouth, he will realize that whatever "THEY INVENT" in lieu of Wayland will MIMIC Wayland probably 90-95%, just as Wayland mimics X a whole lot in any way that is beneficial, at least architecturally if not code wise.

                            This arrogant behavior on behalf of hot heads like this Bacon or anyone like him MUST end, or Linux on the desktop will never see the light of day.

                            Mark Shuttleworth - if you are reading, or anyone who knows Mark - can you please REIGN in this assface Bacon? THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by boast View Post
                              Wayland = good
                              Anything not wayland = bad (for the rest of human existence)

                              Is this correct?
                              I'll take a stab at this -

                              Anything not Wayland = Anything not UNIX

                              Is anything not UNIX bad? Not necessarily, but then why does everyone keep reinventing it?

                              My point is - even if whomever his "Anything not wayland" highness is puts something together, it's going to end up looking a lot like Wayland.....

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                                Someone really needs to remove this Jono Bacon as a "community manager" and I would say remove him completely and sap his influencing power by relegating him to a troll.

                                This is -EXACTLY- what Linux is suffering from - and I've said this over and over - the MASSIVE hubris coinciding with the "not invented here" syndrome.
                                Jono Bacon is just the community manager, so he is basically the messenger.
                                Don't shoot the messenger.
                                He isn't the guy who decided that they should develop this software.

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