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  • #21
    Originally posted by dfx. View Post
    same reason most people use Windows® maybe ? maybe some other bullshit reason, since quality of things does not correlate much with price or popularity anywhere.
    Yes but this is FOSS. If you know better you write something better. I haven't seen anyone proposing a better pulseaudio or systemd.


    The whole anti-Lennartism thing is plain down stupid.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
      Yes but this is FOSS. If you know better you write something better. I haven't seen anyone proposing a better pulseaudio or systemd.


      The whole anti-Lennartism thing is plain down stupid.
      No difference at all. You can write something better without FOSS too.

      pulseaudio < ALSA or OSS directly (I don't know why I would need it)
      systemd < BSD init (much simpler and UNIX-like)

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      • #23
        Originally posted by LightBit View Post
        No difference at all. You can write something better without FOSS too.

        pulseaudio < ALSA or OSS directly (I don't know why I would need it)
        systemd < BSD init (much simpler and UNIX-like)
        This. No need to write anything new to be better, many existing solutions are already better.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by curaga View Post
          This. No need to write anything new to be better, many existing solutions are already better.
          Because its so much fun to use a text editor to set up you sound devices.

          And still people use Lennarts stuff. Go figure.

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          • #25
            People also complain about the pulse setup GUIs, of which there are a ton of. Your point was?

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            • #26
              Originally posted by curaga View Post
              People also complain about the pulse setup GUIs, of which there are a ton of. Your point was?
              That i welcome whatever makes Linux easier, user friendlier, more modern, and more standardized.

              Have you tried systemd?

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              • #27
                Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                Because its so much fun to use a text editor to set up you sound devices.
                Yes, it is fun to use text editor, because it always works.

                Why didn't he write setup GUI for ALSA, if that is a problem.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                  Yes but this is FOSS. If you know better you write something better. I haven't seen anyone proposing a better pulseaudio or systemd.
                  The whole anti-Lennartism thing is plain down stupid.
                  this is FOSS, and in FOSS you don't have to be an Alpha-tester, unless you want to.
                  i know better one thing for sure: _i_ _know better_ what _i need_.

                  i may crunch though many things, but refuse to deal with systemd in state it is now. but i may give it a chance once it matured enough. i don't need it, because i have better-suited alternatives, but i might want it someday.

                  pulseaudio is another story, for me: it's 100% useless and counter-productive to some extent. i don't need "something better", i don't need it, and i don't have a need to need it. i may _tolerate_ it, if it would start targeting all sound hardware and not just shitty notebooks's built-in HDA chips though.

                  and i don't hate Lennart, i hate more featureless and glitchy software and attitude of people, who make and cram it unto user masses.
                  i dislike policykit, nepomuk and its creators the same damn way as pulseaudio's.

                  but, from my point of view, kmscon's and wayland's guys have more decent approaches. i want their stuff, and don't mind needing it in the future.

                  PS: thank Daniel i'm using Gentoo and don't have PA installed and systemd activated. but that doesn't mean, i don't have a right to express indignation about it.

                  Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                  Because its so much fun to use a text editor to set up you sound devices.
                  And still people use Lennarts stuff. Go figure.
                  no, it's not fun.
                  but maybe you can enlighten me if & how i can set up 2 _independent_ stereo + 1 mixed-on-the-fly-from-stereo-to-mono outputs for various programs's _simultaneous_ use, having only built-in motherboard's HDA with "standard" 6 holes (4 for 7.1 setup, Mic In, Line In) and using only pulseaudio and its GUI tools, huh ?

                  Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                  That i welcome whatever makes Linux easier, user friendlier, more modern, and more standardized.
                  also, maybe you have some examples of things that cannot be done with existing alsa's GUI tools but can - with pulseaudio's ?
                  because, that what i asked above indeed can't be done with alsa's GUI and only with manual alsa config writing. i'm not aware however of any way to do it with pulseaudio, let alone _easier_ way. and everything else i need from sound system, on the contrary, can be done with alsa GUIs.

                  _
                  the only thing, that i see, pulseaudio is good for now is dumbing down potential features of alsa & hardware at hand to "input to everything from single input hole plugged and output from everything to every output plugged of one selected device with memory of volume level per each device (remembering volume levels for each channel of each device ? forget that !)", which doesn't make existing things easier to use, but enables ignorant not to be overwhelmed by possibilities by eliminating those things.
                  which is quite fucked up. and a popular way to do things these days :/

                  damn, i dream of the day PA's GUI would be made that wlll be able to automatically repressent all the possibilities of alsa usage for any configuration of alsa-supported sound devices, utilising all hardware-features and alsa software-features ! then i will be motherfucking impressed !

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                  • #29
                    systemd

                    It would seem a lot of folks here are pretty clueless about what systemd is really about. It does scratch some "annoying / dangerous" itches. Itches that really do NOT have anything "better" in place. I could be nice and list some of them. You know what? I do not think so. Go READ! Quit being a Troll / Tool and actually read.

                    Now as for Pulse...I admit I still do not exactly love it, but at least *These Days* it pretty much works. Been a long and twisty road... You would think there might have been a less disruptive way... *cough*

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                    • #30
                      correction

                      Originally posted by dfx. View Post
                      this is FOSS, and in FOSS you don't have to be an Alpha-tester, unless you want to.
                      no, it's not fun.
                      but maybe you can enlighten me if & how i can set up 2 _independent_ stereo + 1 mixed-on-the-fly-from-stereo-to-mono outputs for various programs's _simultaneous_ use, having only built-in motherboard's HDA with "standard" 6 holes (4 for 7.1 setup, Mic In, Line In) and using only pulseaudio and its GUI tools, huh ?
                      and by "2 _independent_ stereo" i wanted to say "2 _independent_ stereo [outputs] where 1 goes out 1 hole and other is mirrored to 2 at once", everything else applies.
                      yeah, this is how it is set up now for me with alsa.

                      i would _looove_ to have a _truly easier_ way for that stuff. which would also guarantee, that there is no unnecessary buffering and sound conversions on the way.

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