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Drafting Plans For X12, The X11 Successor

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  • #31
    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    This hole thing was never about you and your X-based business model You're creating your own problem here...

    The fact, not some 'opinion', the fact is that X11 is so old now, that it is being replaced in its own refference implementation.

    It may shock you, but in a year or so Windows 8 will be released. That will seriously set the tone for real-life tablet use. Now what would you be saying if a customer of yours wants your program/service/whatever it may be, running on his touch-based Windows 8 tablet? How "happy" is he going to be once you tell him that it's impossible.

    Anyone else knowing how Xlib works? No. The entire point of toolkits like GTK+ and Qt is to abstract the horror. Even the X.org developpers have created XCB, because Xlib is such a freaking pain in the ass.

    Now... Do you still think that I cannot like X12 or that I even remotely care about someone else's business?
    Yes, this is about X and about whether it works or doesn't. I say it does. You say it doesn't.

    I know all about Windows 8 and its 'new' tiled interface. Well, I have news for you; I created a tiled touchscreen interface, a touchscreen widget toolkit, and a suite of applications built on it, 25 years ago. Today virtually everybody on the planet uses interfaces descended from, copied from, and directly influenced by it. And it has been available on tablets for ten years. So again, don't presume to take that silly pedantic tone with me.

    None of my customers knows how Xlib works. The GUI relieves them of having to know anything about the complexity of it all. To presume that you are going to teach me anything about the roll of GUI abstraction is very childish of you. If you are 25 or younger I had already laid down the foundations for much of that before you were even born. Don't bore me with nonsense about the Windows 8 GUI, please. Get back on topic, if you can.

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    • #32
      Hurray for the X developers. This is the proper way to advance, setting requirements, looking at user needs, backwards compatibility, discussion of options and new features, and most of all planning. It is way much better than some egotistical impatient douche saying lets ditch core capabilities for speed and have no solutions in mind to replace those capabilities.

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      • #33
        Great, now that we know that the Parcpad inventor makes a business for himself using the Xlib and all it's greatness, and that he has also read the anti-foreword by Dennis Ritchie in the Unix haters handbook (Using the prison that has been given to you), we can all praise him and stop this lowly thread that discusses how X12 might replace the horribly outdated X11, which can't even survive without having to hack together a touchscreen translation layer.

        At this point, anyone might wonder why it was a bad idea again, to have widget toolkit being networked, if you could also, also and have to work with Xlib in the proces...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
          Great, now that we know that the Parcpad inventor makes a business for himself using the Xlib and all it's greatness, and that he has also read the anti-foreword by Dennis Ritchie in the Unix haters handbook (Using the prison that has been given to you), we can all praise him and stop this lowly thread that discusses how X12 might replace the horribly outdated X11, which can't even survive without having to hack together a touchscreen translation layer.

          At this point, anyone might wonder why it was a bad idea again, to have widget toolkit being networked, if you could also, also and have to work with Xlib in the proces...
          You don't have any idea who I am and I am certainly done here with you because you offer nothing to even discuss.

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          • #35
            Remote User,

            Don't let Vincent get to you. He is just a hack that believes in building a house on a foundation of sand is a good thing because you get out of the rain quicker.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Obscene_CNN View Post
              Remote User,

              Don't let Vincent get to you. He is just a hack that believes in building a house on a foundation of sand is a good thing because you get out of the rain quicker.
              Well luckily the Samsung sponsored Enlightenment project agrees with me and uses XCB.

              That might ofcourse be to benifit of Samsung, for their real-life needs.

              Ofcourse they should have listened to you and Remote User, who want to build a house on top of an iceberg that is melting away. That may sound rediculous, but not if you build in floating capabilities underneath the iceberg (Xlib) so that one day it will still float there. Because let's be honest, why build this floating capability directly underneath the house? That would simply be rediciouless

              PS: Not to mention Cario, Compiz, Xine and VLC, among others...
              Last edited by V!NCENT; 10-17-2011, 03:01 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                Well luckily the Samsung sponsored Enlightenment project agrees with me and uses XCB.

                That might ofcourse be to benifit of Samsung, for their real-life needs.

                Ofcourse they should have listened to you and Remote User, who want to build a house on top of an iceberg that is melting away. That may sound rediculous, but not if you build in floating capabilities underneath the iceberg (Xlib) so that one day it will still float there. Because let's be honest, why build this floating capability directly underneath the house? That would simply be rediciouless

                PS: Not to mention Cario, Compiz, Xine and VLC, among others...
                You are such a pain in the ass. None of those things existed years ago so I used what was available and created other tools. Today I use all of the tools you mention, plus others such as HTML5 and OpenGL The only thing more useless than your iceberg analogy is your desperation. Can't you even tell when you have a fork stuck in you?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Obscene_CNN View Post
                  Hurray for the X developers. This is the proper way to advance, setting requirements, looking at user needs, backwards compatibility, discussion of options and new features, and most of all planning. It is way much better than some egotistical impatient douche saying lets ditch core capabilities for speed and have no solutions in mind to replace those capabilities.
                  Hurray for the old, slow crap. Wayland is obviously way to go, because X is too problematic and it seems to be obsolete in many things. If users need backward compatibility there's X running on top of Wayland. I don't know who you are, but you sound stupid. I probably don't need half of X capabilities to use my desktop and guess what? X is damn slow.
                  Last edited by kraftman; 10-17-2011, 03:15 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Agreed, but when X on top of Wayland is still needed, why not take X12?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Remote User View Post
                      You are such a pain in the ass.
                      For you, maybe.

                      None of those things existed years ago so I used what was available and created other tools.
                      Good for you. Why does it matter? Why does what you have used got anything to do with X12? What's your porblem? Fear that X12 threatnens your work? That you have to start over? What's the problem? Even X.org developpers are adding replacement code that bypasses X11. Why would you think that every development work today, regarding X.org, is moving away from X11? Might it not be because X11 is in need of replacement?

                      Today I use all of the tools you mention, plus others such as HTML5 and OpenGL. The only thing more useless than your iceberg analogy is your desperation. Can't you even tell when you have a fork stuck in you?
                      A fork? Are you Q's alter ego on drugs?

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