Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why More Companies Don't Contribute To X.Org

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why More Companies Don't Contribute To X.Org

    Phoronix: Why More Companies Don't Contribute To X.Org

    Being brought up from the discussion surrounding the RadeonHD driver being vandalized, which wound up just being a prank by two X.Org developers to torment one of the former RadeonHD developers, was a discussion why more companies don't contribute back to X.Org. Do companies think the X.Org code is too hard? That it's not worth the time? Is it all politics?..

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODgzMw

  • #2
    I've always gotten the impression that high-dollar open source is confined to what you can't see and CLI administration anyway. That is, why should they bother when they don't have a use for it?

    But then again maybe I've missed the train entirely on X. It's always struck me as something confined to desktop Linux usage, and frankly desktop Linux isn't exactly a large commercial endeavor compared to any other commercial open source software.

    Comment


    • #3
      joffe: Embedded systems are increasingly big business for open source software, and Xorg is often deployed in many classes of such devices. For example in set-top boxes, in-vehicle infotainment systems, personal navigation units, industrial consoles, mobile phones, et.c. Such usage will likely continue to increase in the coming years.

      Comment


      • #4
        which wound up just being a prank by two X.Org developers to torment one of the former RadeonHD developers
        Would you want to work with a bunch of juvenile dipshits like that?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          Would you want to work with a bunch of juvenile dipshits like that?
          Is there absolutely no humor in your life? It's not like it is permanently removed or anything...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            Is there absolutely no humor in your life? It's not like it is permanently removed or anything...
            Personally my sense of humor is generally restricted to things that are funny. Deriving pleasure from stressing other people out is a form of sadism. It isn't funny, it's immature.

            Comment


            • #7
              the question should probably be "How attractive is X as a "product" and what we must do in the future (with Wayland as it seems) in order to attract people/developers/companies in the open source graphics ecosystem"

              the kernel has managed to do that (be attractive) but as it seems the graphics side of things hasn't managed to do the same

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jonnor View Post
                joffe: Embedded systems are increasingly big business for open source software, and Xorg is often deployed in many classes of such devices. For example in set-top boxes, in-vehicle infotainment systems, personal navigation units, industrial consoles, mobile phones, et.c. Such usage will likely continue to increase in the coming years.
                I thought they mostly used different display packages for that? AFAIK Android doesn't use X - I don't think webOS does either, does it?

                Okay, MeeGo does, but who uses that? Also, the name is lame.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This question (why aren't more people working on X ?" comes up every year or so and the the discussion always ends up in more or less the same place :

                  developer : so what do you think would be done with X if we had more devs ?
                  user : problem A
                  developer : that's handled by another part of the graphics stack (typically kernel or mesa), not by X
                  user : problem B
                  developer : that's handled by another part of the graphics stack (typically kernel or mesa), not by X
                  user : problem C
                  developer : that's handled by another part of the graphics stack (typically kernel or mesa), not by X
                  ...

                  Eventually someone comes along and provides a list of issues which *are* handled by X, and that list is usually pretty close to what the developers are working on already.

                  X is a network-extensible window system, and being network extensible brings a number of good and bad things, and most of the bad things can't be eliminated without getting rid of the embedded network protocol... but without the network extensibility it wouldn't be X.

                  The first thing that needs to be clarified is whether "contributing to X.org" really means "contributing to the graphics stack" or "contributing to X". Those two activities used to be largely the same (in the sense that most of the graphics driver work was done in the X drivers, which are part of X.org) but they stopped being the same quite a while ago with the advent of direct rendering and kernel modesetting.

                  Most of the graphics driver code now lives outside of X.org (ie the X drivers are a relatively smaller portion of the driver stack these days) and an increasing number of apps are being written in a way that won't work over the X wire protocol anyways... so the big question remains "assuming the developers were there, is there agreement on what X should become ?".

                  The answer seems to be a resounding "no", with roughly half of the responses saying that the network extensibility should be ditched to let the graphics stack be smaller, faster and more modern, while the other half of responses say that the network extensibility is the most important part of X and the key thing differentiating the Linux/Unix graphics stack from competing OSes.

                  It seems to me that the development community is responding pretty well to those conflicting requests -- working on a new/smaller/simpler graphics stack based on Wayland, while maintaining X in its current form to provide network extensibility and support for existing/legacy applications and ensuring that X will be able to run on top of the new/smaller/simpler stack.

                  There is quite a bit of work happening on the graphics stack in general... it's just that not a lot of it is happening on X itself.

                  There is a real problem in the sense that most of the X work is being done by a small group of people working really hard, which is not sustainable, so one of the priorities of the X community is providing improved/updated documentation in order to make it easier for new developers to join the effort.

                  joffe; correct, neither Android nor WebOS use X.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ethana2 View Post
                    Personally my sense of humor is generally restricted to things that are funny. Deriving pleasure from stressing other people out is a form of sadism. It isn't funny, it's immature.
                    Ow waa! Your taking youself too serious if you can't take a joke.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do people really think Linux isnt' used in desktop market like windows/mac because of X?

                      Do people really think there aren't commercial games for Linux like in windows/mac because of X?


                      Linux is a very, very small market in the desktop consumer area. 15 years old kids do not use Linux, those are the ones that make 80% of the gaming world economy.

                      The day 15 years old use Linux, games for Linux will come out.


                      Now the question is, why don't 15 years old kids use Linux? We know the anser, and it's not X11.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        @bridgman

                        do you believe that this change/new direction in the graphic side can attract more people in it?? (or more importantly companies and money)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I see the changing direction in the graphics stack as a response to market changes, rather than the other way round. I think there are two key factors :

                          1. Improvements in hardware power/performance and battery technology are making mobile computing more interesting. Mobile computing brings new screen sizes and interaction models which make compatibility with existing applications less of an issue, and Linux seems to be pretty well positioned for smaller devices.

                          2. Improvements in network technology, server price/performance and web application technology (along with increasing maintenance/support costs) are driving IT departments towards more server-centric models, and this makes it easier to use Linux in enterprise client systems.

                          So yes, I see increased company interest/funding but as a result of market changes not technology changes. This has been happening for a couple of years now.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
                            Do people really think Linux isnt' used in desktop market like windows/mac because of X?
                            Sadly, plenty of people really do seem to believe that. 'If only we could replace X with some fancy new buzzword-compliant technology, we'd own the desktop market!'

                            Mostly because they don't understand X or why it was developed, or why it's superior in many respects to the competition. Or, for that matter, why it's survived twenty years without someone throwing it out and replacing it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Right. Some days I think the real complaint is that "X hasn't been turned into something that is so obviously superior to everything else out there that developers flock to Linux just because the graphics stack is so freakin' wonderful"

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X