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Linus: What's Wrong With The Whole DRM Crowd?

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  • Linus: What's Wrong With The Whole DRM Crowd?

    Phoronix: Linus: What's Wrong With The Whole DRM Crowd?

    David Airlie sent in a DRM pull request to Linus Torvalds for the Linux 2.6.37 kernel this week to fix some Intel DRM driver bugs as well as one ATI Radeon KMS fix. However, this pull request sparked another rant by Linus Torvalds about the quality of the work of the open-source Linux (DRM) graphics driver developers...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODgwMQ

  • #2
    Seems justified to me.

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    • #3
      While I agree with Linus most of the time, he should calm down and chill. I don't recall him writing any piece of graphics stack that's in the kernel. His messages are derogatory towards the hard work that has been done with DRM, TTM, radeon, intel, and nouveau. Instead I would like to see him fix the scheduler for once and bring the desktop responsiveness to regular users, and maybe merge BFS scheduler.

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      • #4
        Response from David Airle:

        http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...er/005620.html

        Seems it shouldn't have been sent to Linus in the first place.

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        • #5
          It doesn't seem to be aimed at graphics stack coding, but trying to prevent people from forming bad habits with git trees.

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          • #6
            Thank you Linus!
            Upgrading kernel is like playing roulette, you cannot know how many things it will break.
            ## VGA ##
            AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
            Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hax0r View Post
              While I agree with Linus most of the time, he should calm down and chill. I don't recall him writing any piece of graphics stack that's in the kernel. His messages are derogatory towards the hard work that has been done with DRM, TTM, radeon, intel, and nouveau.
              F*%^ no, this is such excellent comic relief. I generally picture a giant angry tux mascot writing these emails. It's adorable.

              Instead I would like to see him fix the scheduler for once and bring the desktop responsiveness to regular users, and maybe merge BFS scheduler.
              Meh. Ideally it would be nice to bring down the overhead associated with cgroups and CFS. Since switching back from BFS my machine doesn't freeze up for minutes at a time under heavy I/O (not swapping). Clearly they're doing something right that BFS does not, even under "normal" workloads.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Smorg View Post
                F*%^ no, this is such excellent comic relief. I generally picture a giant angry tux mascot writing these emails. It's adorable.
                No no no, Tux honks the message, and Linus (or maybe an assistant) dutifully transcribes. It sounds like this.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by hax0r View Post
                  While I agree with Linus most of the time, he should calm down and chill. I don't recall him writing any piece of graphics stack that's in the kernel. His messages are derogatory towards the hard work that has been done
                  Linus doesn't need to write the code to comment on its quality or how well the developers abide by the kernel merge window schedule. I'm not a kernel junkie, but even from reading this site and rc changelogs, I know that the DRM devs always push the merge window policy and/or commit code within the merge windows that really isn't ready just for the sake of not waiting for the next kernel release.

                  The DRM devs always want to get their code in the kernel tree and Linux always wants to keep a strict policy of only merging small bug-fixes with low regression potential after the rc1 window closes. For minor violations and newer devs, Linus is usually lenient and might make a comment in the changelog. For major violations and/or repeat offenders, colorful e-mails are created (and warranted).

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                  • #10
                    .

                    Originally posted by hax0r View Post
                    While I agree with Linus most of the time, he should calm down and chill.
                    Originally posted by hax0r View Post
                    His messages are derogatory towards the hard work that has been done with DRM, TTM, radeon, intel, and nouveau.
                    You don't seem to know Linus. Most notably a few years ago a very good coder named Alan Cox walked out as the maintainer of the kernel's tty subsystem because of the feedback he got from Linus.

                    That's just who Linus is. As he said himself, he has an ego the size of a small planet. Inescapably, personality like that leads to a lot of bad things such as arrogance and a cold denial when you should admit you've done something wrong.

                    Originally posted by hax0r View Post
                    Instead I would like to see him fix the scheduler for once and bring the desktop responsiveness to regular users, and maybe merge BFS scheduler.
                    As for BFS scheduler, it gives you the speed but with a noticable cost. Kolivas never even intended to push it to mainline.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DanL View Post
                      I know that the DRM devs always push the merge window policy and/or commit code within the merge windows that really isn't ready just for the sake of not waiting for the next kernel release
                      This is more indicative of a process problem than failure of devs to fit themselves to the process. DRM always seeing high activity with large changes isn't a bad thing by virtue of the development cycle that might best suit DRM not fitting with that of the rest of the kernel. Fortunately git workflows help accommodate such differences, but there's still the merge window problem. This is why there's a need for zen kernels and the like to do backporting which just creates extra work. From a desktop perspective it makes sense to want bleeding edge in areas like DRM where there's lots of work to be done, the breadth of what's been implemented matters, and newer generally is better.

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                      • #12
                        As Dave noted, part of the problem is the drm drivers are huge (possibly the largest drivers in the kernel), covering tons of devices, most of which the developers don't have access to. Think of how many oems make radeon cards. Couple that with the fact that few drm users test the kernel during the merge window or rc phases, so we tend to get a lot of bugs just after release or late in the release cycle generally for hw configurations we don't have.

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                        • #13
                          come on guys

                          would you REALLY prefer everything to be nice and devs be nice and polite to eachother and stuff??


                          this kind of drama spices things up dont you think

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                          • #14
                            Reading Linus' emails brings a tear of joy to my eye .

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Melcar View Post
                              Reading Linus' emails brings a tear of joy to my eye .
                              Have a thrilling time then: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds

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