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Luc Calls For A Dead Linux Desktop If Keith Gets His Way

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  • Luc Calls For A Dead Linux Desktop If Keith Gets His Way

    Phoronix: Luc Calls For A Dead Linux Desktop If Keith Gets His Way

    While X Server 1.10 is not being discussed at length until tomorrow (the final day of XDS Toulouse), besides today's notes, Luc Verhaegen who formerly was with Novell working on the RadeonHD driver and has also worked on the open-source VIA Unichrome driver and a few other X related projects, is preparing for another heated battle...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODYxMw

  • #2
    Merging the drivers back in doesn't exactly scream "best practice" to me.

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    • #3
      Please don't demodulate it! It's bad enough that you have to upgrade the kernel for driver updates. Please don't make the graphic stack have the same issue.

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      • #4
        Let's break the damn APIs, but please do not merge the video drivers back.
        ## VGA ##
        AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
        Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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        • #5
          The Nvidia driver is the WORST example of demodularisation.

          If we follow that direction, each driver would implement pretty much all of the X server and Gallium3d internally.

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          • #6
            De-modularizing the video drivers would be insane. Modular systems upgrade their APIs all the time, and it isn't painless but it is possible to do.

            If it is just the input drivers, then that is more understandable.

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            • #7
              Where exactly is the "call for a dead linux desktop?"

              A developer theorizes that moving the drivers in to the server will kill the linux desktop... He doesn't "call for it."

              I theorize that a volcano will erupt... Does this mean I advocate volcanoes?

              "Luc is very much in starch opposition..."

              Potatoe fight?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                The Nvidia driver is the WORST example of demodularisation.

                If we follow that direction, each driver would implement pretty much all of the X server and Gallium3d internally.
                This is not what is proposed here, this is not why the nvidia driver is mentioned.

                The nvidia driver was mentioned, because it is the most popular, and the one we hear the least people complain about. The reason for that is: it just works for more of the time than any of the other drivers out there.

                One major part of that is: people can just grab it and install it, and be pretty secure in that nothing else in their system, except the nvidia graphics driver stack itself, will change.

                This is what we can learn from nvidia (and unichrome, and to some lesser extent sis and radeonhd)

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                • #9
                  Now... correct me if I'm wrong, but this would require all the drivers to be open source, would it not? I.e., the nvidia blob would have to reimplement the ENTIRE xserver, or would have to open up and merge with xorg.... I don't see xorg accepting any only-works-with-blob code any more than kernel does.

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                  • #10
                    Again, please don't do it. I am sure with merged drivers, API stability will be managed in very sloppy ways, if at all.

                    What is especially funny is that someone on xorg-dev suggested removing the module loader and linking in drivers directly as a further step. Hello, XFree 3.x!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by libv View Post
                      This is not what is proposed here, this is not why the nvidia driver is mentioned.

                      The nvidia driver was mentioned, because it is the most popular, and the one we hear the least people complain about. The reason for that is: it just works for more of the time than any of the other drivers out there.

                      One major part of that is: people can just grab it and install it, and be pretty secure in that nothing else in their system, except the nvidia graphics driver stack itself, will change.

                      This is what we can learn from nvidia (and unichrome, and to some lesser extent sis and radeonhd)
                      Thanks for your reply.

                      But it still seems that it is exactly this duplication of effort (i.e. Nvidia designs everything, from the kernel parts to the high-level interfaces with only their hardware in mind and reduplicates much of the code in X, the kernel and Gallium3d) that leads to this.

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                      • #12
                        I too am against this. Sometimes I want to try newer or bleeding edge versions of certain drivers. This would be extremely painful if things were demodularised. If they want to test the builds more often, they can very easily set up a script to do that. As for API breakages, let the distros worry about that.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                          Thanks for your reply.

                          But it still seems that it is exactly this duplication of effort (i.e. Nvidia designs everything, from the kernel parts to the high-level interfaces with only their hardware in mind and reduplicates much of the code in X, the kernel and Gallium3d) that leads to this.
                          The Catalyst driver doesn't do much of that stuff and compatibility is still there. So no, it's not "it" that leads to this.

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                          • #14
                            Modularization is the best thing that ever happened to X.org.

                            I think it's the Old hat mentality of Keith to try this..

                            It's really stupid to limit development on a broad scale just so it's apparently easier for a few people that work on X.

                            I'm with Luc on this.

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                            • #15
                              What's the problem with frequently releasing (say once per month) bugfix Xorg updates (1.10.1, 1.10.2,...) and all its drivers at once?

                              As long as those bugfix releases happen often enough, I don't see why getting rogue drivers back into the nest is a bad thing.

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