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  • #31
    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Recurcive argumentation. A is B because B is A. What the fsck is your point? You didnít have one, Ďcus I made one: Why does the free software X.org, being a refference implemenation of X11, that has its own free drivers, stop and considder supporting a commercial closed source driver thatís in development outside of X.org, which completely doesn't give a fsck about whether X.org wants to move on or uses new tech, when it already has Noveau? Care to explain? Or care to shut up? Choose one...
    Firstly it would be helpful if you'd stop being a fool.

    Secondly, in what way would it make sense for the xorg devs to break either nVidia's blob or fglrx when so many people depend on them?

    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Originally posted by mugginz
    Donít you understand that some people need to use fglrx?
    What the fsck is this for a shewbacca defense?! Realy... This makes zero sense...
    Dude if you don't know why that's valuable then there's no hope for you.


    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Originally posted by mugginz
    When they do, do you suggest that they reconfigure their machines to use the FLOSS drivers when they need to playback video? Doesnít sound very inconvinient does it.
    X.org ships nv-blob by default? What? I think it is the other way around, but that might just be me
    Some people need fglrx. If they do, that rules out vsynced video in some configurations. If they then need to view vsynced video, they'll have to config their machine to use the FLOSS driver to do this and when they're finished, switch back to fglrx. You don't sound like you know what you're talking about if you don't even know the basics.

    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Originally posted by mugginz
    That wasnít me who brought up those cards. Go back and read the name of the poster. Now whoís being full of shit V!NCENT.
    Youíre still full of shit, or troll.... or both. Anyway I made a mistake reading Phoronix with my mobile slow-ass phone and got it mixed up in tha baking sun while being on a bus without airconditioning on. Sorry dude....
    Dude, look back at who brought up those cards. It was curaga who made the post with them listed. It's there in black and white. If you can't even read then there's not much hope for a worthwhile discussion.

    Just to help you out, here is the post in its entirety.

    Originally posted by curaga View Post
    2. Point me to a graphics card that is still in use that is not fully accelerating X.org due to driver difficiency.
    Umm..
    http://www.x.org/wiki/ExaStatus

    Work in progress:

    tdfx

    s3virge (Copy only currently)

    r128 Joseph Garvin SoC

    No work started, but capable of Render acceleration:
    glide

    glint (supported in KAA), Coming soon (ShawnStarr)
    i740
    imstt
    newport
    impact
    rendition
    trident (supported in KAA)
    voodoo

    No work started, some chips might be capable of Render acceleration:
    apm (via the voodoo rush)
    cirrus (laguna?)
    neomagic (256XL+ was the only one with a 3D engine) (supported in KAA)
    cyrix/nsc (new GX2s have an alpha combiner)
    sun{ffb,leo}

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
      Youíre still full of shit, or troll.... or both.
      So even though I was prepared to spend $500 on an ATI card I'm an nVidia troll eh?

      Comment


      • #33
        Yah, dat was my post. I found it amusing when your question had so clear a list at the X wiki.
        You asked for cards in use, not cards still for sale. Even then there's probably a ton of r128 server boards for sale.

        Now, /back to bashing blobs.

        Comment


        • #34
          The bullshit is almost getting unbearable, but Iíll just give it another shot...

          Originally posted by mugginz View Post
          Firstly it would be helpful if you'd stop being a fool.
          Not answered.

          Secondly, in what way would it make sense for the xorg devs to break either nVidia's blob or fglrx when so many people depend on them?
          Still not answered. Starting to ask myself who is the one that canít read here...

          Dude if you don't know why that's valuable then there's no hope for you.

          Some people need fglrx. If they do, that rules out vsynced video in some configurations. If they then need to view vsynced video, they'll have to config their machine to use the FLOSS driver to do this and when they're finished, switch back to fglrx.
          First you brought up the fglrx point and then arguing along with yourself. It has never been about fglrx. But by the definition of important for desktop use and not workstation here at Phoronix Iíll give you a hint: what people need is not what people like. People need e-mail and people need digital agendaís and being able to let their computer fill the roll of a typewriter. Everything else is fun/entertainment, being gaming. So by that definition some people might need tear free video to watch movies.

          But then again some people might need Windows for app X. But that, as you may find after you did the brain surgery, is irregardless of X.orgís purpose and stance towards outside, closed sourced driver development.

          Dude, look back at who brought up those cards. It was curaga who made the post with them listed. It's there in black and white. If you can't even read then there's not much hope for a worthwhile discussion.
          I already said I was fscking sorry and if you can manage to read and think at 40 degrees celsius (yes there is actually a temperature meter on the screen) when youíre barely used to 20 degrees just yet and on a phone than GLHF.

          Just to help you out, here is the post in its entirety.
          I also said ďstill in use todayĒ. Server, for the love of god, should be good with a terminal only, or headless. Howís that for being a fool? Setting up Compiz when youíre running anything, not scientific because itís old as hell, related to webserving is absolutely retarted and even then VESA will do the trick. God...

          And yes back to bashing the blobs, if thatís OK with mugginz?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            The bullshit is almost getting unbearable, but Iíll just give it another shot...


            Not answered.
            To quote you:

            Originally posted by V!NCENT
            Why does the free software X.org, being a refference implemenation of X11, that has its own free drivers, stop and considder supporting a commercial closed source driver thatís in development outside of X.org, which completely doesn't give a fsck about whether X.org wants to move on or uses new tech, when it already has Noveau? Care to explain? Or care to shut up? Choose one...
            I said

            Originally posted by mugginz
            Secondly, in what way would it make sense for the xorg devs to break either nVidia's blob or fglrx when so many people depend on them?
            If you can't see why they'd want to enable the binary drivers then you don't have a very broad grasp of the computer market place. There is a need for the binary blobs that the FLOSS drivers can't meet. If you feel it's a reasonable thing for the xorg devs to not consider their impact on them then you need to do acquire some appreciation of what other people need.



            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            Originally posted by mugginz
            Secondly, in what way would it make sense for the xorg devs to break either nVidia's blob or fglrx when so many people depend on them?
            Still not answered. Starting to ask myself who is the one that canít read here...
            In what way is that not self explanatory?



            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            First you brought up the fglrx point and then arguing along with yourself. It has never been about fglrx. But by the definition of important for desktop use and not workstation here at Phoronix Iíll give you a hint: what people need is not what people like. People need e-mail and people need digital agendaís and being able to let their computer fill the roll of a typewriter. Everything else is fun/entertainment, being gaming. So by that definition some people might need tear free video to watch movies.
            There is a requirement for xorg to support both fglrx and nVidia's blob. The xorg devs can if they feel the need break those drivers in order to do other things with the open drivers. To break the binary drivers is to diminish the viability of the Linux platform to many users. If they break those drives the help break the Linux platform for a lot of people. If they want to provide a compelling solution for the majority they need to be sympathetic to the binary driver writers. Pretty simple stuff really.


            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            But then again some people might need Windows for app X. But that, as you may find after you did the brain surgery, is irregardless of X.orgís purpose and stance towards outside, closed sourced driver development.
            No, xorg is required by many users to support the binary drivers. If xorg drops support for the binary drivers many users will drop Linux as a platform.


            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            I already said I was fscking sorry and if you can manage to read and think at 40 degrees celsius (yes there is actually a temperature meter on the screen) when youíre barely used to 20 degrees just yet and on a phone than GLHF.
            And starting of the sentence with:

            Originally posted by V!NCENT
            Youíre still full of shit, or troll.... or both.
            is really being fair.


            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            I also said ďstill in use todayĒ. Server, for the love of god, should be good with a terminal only, or headless. Howís that for being a fool? Setting up Compiz when youíre running anything, not scientific because itís old as hell, related to webserving is absolutely retarted and even then VESA will do the trick. God...
            Running a file server was part of this discussion?

            Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
            And yes back to bashing the blobs, if thatís OK with mugginz?
            If you must but you only make yourself look like a fool to do so.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by mugginz View Post
              I said [...] Secondly, in what way would it make sense for the xorg devs to break either nVidia's blob or fglrx when so many people depend on them? [...] In what way is that not self explanatory?
              Oh I donít know... answering a question with a question? How can you possibly fail to grasp that? Well I donít think that you are dumb, so naturaly I was wondering: ďYouíre still full of shit, or troll.... [...]Ē, because you asked:
               Now whoís being full of shit V!NCENT.
              So I simply answered your rhethorical question because that should have been realy obvious, but leaving the option open which wasnít a statement: ď[...] or bothĒ.

              If you can't see why they'd want to enable the binary drivers then you don't have a very broad grasp of the computer market place.
              If you canít grasp why the color blue doesnít match the color brown would be as logical as that. I was questioning why X.org would bow to nVidia while the very core of Linux, being Linux itself (as X.org runs on other non-Linux OSís too), doesnít. And it shows nVidia would work around the core of Linux and so why canít X.org focus on Noveau and have nVidia do the same thing? Hell nVidia might actually produce some compatibility with more modern parts of X.org and they will because their customers need Linux support. So... again... what are we talking about? The bigger picture, does that say anything to you?

              Hell Linux would be even more adopted if Linux would allow patented Windows shit into the kernel... So it is not the point. And please donít tell me I have to explain what I am talking about right here...

              There is a need for the binary blobs that the FLOSS drivers can't meet. If you feel it's a reasonable thing for the xorg devs to not consider their impact on them then you need to do acquire some appreciation of what other people need.

              There is a requirement for xorg to support both fglrx and nVidia's blob. The xorg devs can if they feel the need break those drivers in order to do other things with the open drivers. To break the binary drivers is to diminish the viability of the Linux platform to many users. If they break those drives the help break the Linux platform for a lot of people. If they want to provide a compelling solution for the majority they need to be sympathetic to the binary driver writers. Pretty simple stuff really.
              And who are you to know what other people need? Have you dived into the mind of the very people that adopted Linux for the free software aspect? No? Than what is your goal? Linux world domination? How are closed source core parts of an OS going to help it? Maybe the next thing that justifies closed source would be replacing the Linux kernel with NT? Yeah that would by means of virtualisation atract more users to Linux. What do we gain here, but utter crap? Maybe a little. But what do we lose here? Progress on the FLOSS parts of core OS code (counting distroís as OSís).

              No, xorg is required by many users to support the binary drivers. If xorg drops support for the binary drivers many users will drop Linux as a platform.
              The pressure on nVidia is too high to not, just like fglrx, work around the legacy code/write more conformant code.

              Running a file server was part of this discussion?
              And you said that I couldnít read... ;
              Originally posted by curaga View Post
              You asked for cards in use, not cards still for sale. Even then there's probably a ton of r128 server boards for sale.
              And now back to you;
              If you must but you only make yourself look like a fool to do so.
              As you whish... After all... I for one donít want to look like a fool to play it whisely by asking you if it is OK to stop. Last time I checked a fool was the direct opposite of a whise, but whatever. In your universe nothing seems to be bounded by anbything that doesnít appeal you. For example building a future investment, contrary to direct gain and long term loss... So tell me; if you donít care about FLOSS, but do care about a UNIX like OS with a feature rich experience then why donít you head over to apple.com and buy yourself a Mac OS X computer?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                And you said that I couldnít read...
                Actually I should've asked can you think clearly.

                As you don't seem to be able to I guess we'll have to play along with your rot. But the nets fulls of such people. There's no reason the Phoronix forums wont have any of them.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                  Actually I should've asked can you think clearly.

                  As you don't seem to be able to I guess we'll have to play along with your rot. But the nets fulls of such people. There's no reason the Phoronix forums wont have any of them.
                  And finaly, after you wanted to on, the complexity of this argument in maze of quoting took its tole.

                  But simply putting argumentationaly founded disagreement on the same line as as 'rot' is saying more about you then about me.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    And finaly, after you wanted to on, the complexity of this argument in maze of quoting took its tole.

                    But simply putting argumentationaly founded disagreement on the same line as as 'rot' is saying more about you then about me.
                    Ah but you see V!NCENT, you're artificial intellectualism makes no sense. I previously thought you were wanting to have a sane discussion. Even if we disagree, it's possible to talk about the differences. You began to wonder off into some weird gibberish so I've surmised that you're either completely bonkers or a troll but either way not worthy of any attempt to reason with you.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                      Secondly, in what way would it make sense for the xorg devs to break either nVidia's blob or fglrx when so many people depend on them?
                      In open source world... You know here many times devs don't give a damn about what users want or need... Devs write the software for their own fun or need and so they work on features they need/want ...

                      Oh and for the sake of it I'll just point that Xorg devs rejected nvidia patches for using the blob as default one without Xorg conf ...

                      If you consider this I'm quite surprised then they are keeping some code in for nvidia blob sake... Let's face it if it was out nvidia would just had to adjust to it sooner or latter.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                        In open source world... You know here many times devs don't give a damn about what users want or need...
                        You're right there. Thankfully this isn't completely universal but not uncommon.

                        Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                        Devs write the software for their own fun or need and so they work on features they need/want ...
                        The guys that get paid mightn't have that perspective though.

                        Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                        Oh and for the sake of it I'll just point that Xorg devs rejected nvidia patches for using the blob as default one without Xorg conf ...
                        I'd probably agree with their position on that one. I don't think the blobs deserve to be the default choices given the problems that could create but I don't think the xorg guys should be flippant with respect to the blobs place in the Linux world. But of course, ultimately it's their choice to do what suits them however wise or unwise those choices may be.

                        Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                        If you consider this I'm quite surprised then they are keeping some code in for nvidia blob sake... Let's face it if it was out nvidia would just had to adjust to it sooner or latter.
                        Surprising but pleasingly so.

                        Comment

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