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Whoops, X.Org Server 1.9 Gets Another RC Today

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  • #16
    Given that it seems the xorg guys want to depreciate some code it'd be nice if nVidia put it into their plans going forward to remove their dependency on that code. When reading the xorg-devel list it doesn't seem like an urgent requirement to remove the code by any means though.

    One thing I don't support is any "hang 'em high" mentality that's for sure. I don't get why some people are so quick to reach for nVidia's throat.

    Comment


    • #17
      2. Point me to a graphics card that is still in use that is not fully accelerating X.org due to driver difficiency.
      Umm..
      http://www.x.org/wiki/ExaStatus

      Work in progress:

      tdfx

      s3virge (Copy only currently)

      r128 Joseph Garvin SoC

      No work started, but capable of Render acceleration:
      glide

      glint (supported in KAA), Coming soon (ShawnStarr)
      i740
      imstt
      newport
      impact
      rendition
      trident (supported in KAA)
      voodoo

      No work started, some chips might be capable of Render acceleration:
      apm (via the voodoo rush)
      cirrus (laguna?)
      neomagic (256XL+ was the only one with a 3D engine) (supported in KAA)
      cyrix/nsc (new GX2s have an alpha combiner)
      sun{ffb,leo}

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
        This is true. However, I do believe nvidia would follow our rules if it wouldn't be treated like the first class citizen.

        It seems they don't care if they break compatibility with the fglrx driver, because it happens all the time afaik, but they care when they brake compatibility with the nvidia blob in the rc X.org version by removing obsolete code which is used only by nvidia driver. If nvidia devs are so lazy I wouldn't care. Fglrx team has always to care about compatibility and nvidia probably has not.

        Maybe because the NVIDIA driver is the real only working-feature-rich GPU driver for Linux. Tell me about another driver that works good, is stable, is feature rich, is performant, like NVIDIA.

        Maybe FGRLX? -> must be a joke
        Maybe Ati oss driver? -> that's another joke.

        Comment


        • #19
          Wait.. since when is nvidia supposed be stable, feature rich and performant?

          I've had (and still have) enough driver related crashes, there are plenty of features nvidia will never have due to being closed source, 2d performance is still crappy in certain use cases and I never figured out why it'll sometimes take several seconds to maximize an xv window.


          Granted, nvidia is one of the better drivers around, and if it fits your needs, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's not flawless, it's not the only driver that's usable, it's not even the best driver in all situation.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rohcQaH View Post
            Wait.. since when is nvidia supposed be stable, feature rich and performant?

            I've had (and still have) enough driver related crashes, there are plenty of features nvidia will never have due to being closed source, 2d performance is still crappy in certain use cases and I never figured out why it'll sometimes take several seconds to maximize an xv window.


            Granted, nvidia is one of the better drivers around, and if it fits your needs, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's not flawless, it's not the only driver that's usable, it's not even the best driver in all situation.

            I'm not aware of a software that is "best" in all situation. However in a general case, NVIDIA blob is the best GPU driver for Linux. Xorg drivers can't kill something that works for most cases, do you guys realize this?

            I'm the first one to hate blob drivers, and that's why I only have AMD gpu cards combined to open source drivers but still, I understand why Xorg can't just kill compatibility with NVIDIA blob.

            They care about their users and are realistic. I can't say the same for a lot of you out there.

            Blind extremism is the thing I hate most in the GNU/Linux world, even more than a blob driver.

            Comment


            • #21
              The rational thing to do is:

              write to nvidia-devs that mioverlay will be depreciated next release and tell them to remove dependencies till then.

              That gives Nvidia time to react

              Gives the X developers their freedom

              and won't bother any Users.

              Comment


              • #22
                The real question is, what's the point of removing the mioverlay code? It's not NVIDIA-specific (even though only NVIDIA currently uses it), and overlays are used all the time by high-end workstation types. Just because it's not used by the other drivers doesn't mean it's not useful.

                Comment


                • #23
                  @muggins,
                  Since when is fglrx part of X.org's driver stack? Tear free video works just right now my hd3200 without fglrx and evergreen is the newest card which is not supported yet. And then that stupid list with Glide and Voodoo cards. Raise your hands if your 20yo GPU is not dead yet. Also none of these cards have been sold since the start of this freaking millenium.

                  Stop being full of shit, man...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    @muggins,
                    Since when is fglrx part of X.org's driver stack?
                    I never said it was. It doesn't take a brain surgin to know that they shouldn't unnecessarily break either fglrx or nVidia's blob though.


                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    Tear free video works just right now my hd3200 without fglrx and evergreen is the newest card which is not supported yet.
                    Don't you understand that some people need to use fglrx? When they do, do you suggest that they reconfigure their machines to use the FLOSS drivers when they need to playback video? Doesn't sound very inconvinient does it.

                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    And then that stupid list with Glide and Voodoo cards. Raise your hands if your 20yo GPU is not dead yet. Also none of these cards have been sold since the start of this freaking millenium.

                    Stop being full of shit, man...
                    That wasn't me who brought up those cards. Go back and read the name of the poster. Now who's being full of shit V!NCENT.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                      One thing I don't support is any "hang 'em high" mentality that's for sure. I don't get why some people are so quick to reach for nVidia's throat.
                      They never played nice and they showed many times they simply don't care about Linux users, but they only port Windows driver to Linux. They're slowly improving some things and add needed or not features, but it seems they don't care about the complaints. I have a very bad experience with nvidia related people. I even consider it's a Windows fanboys company.

                      @Bulletxt

                      Maybe because the NVIDIA driver is the real only working-feature-rich GPU driver for Linux. Tell me about another driver that works good, is stable, is feature rich, is performant, like NVIDIA.

                      Maybe FGRLX? -> must be a joke
                      Maybe Ati oss driver? -> that's another joke.
                      Maybe. However, I don't consider nvidia drivers being stable (at least some quite long time ago), because they were an only reason why my Linux box crashed from time to time, 2D was terrible in KDE4 too, but I guess it was terrible in fglrx too. I read somewhere binary blobs are the main reason why the kernel "oopses".

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                        They never played nice and they showed many times they simply don't care about Linux users
                        In what way do they care less about Linux users than ATI does?

                        Remember, nVidia have had consistent vendor support for Linux for many, many years now. They didn't start and then fade for awhile.

                        nVidia don't see releasing specs as ATI did because of their own business reasons. That aside, their blob works great for the vast majority of their users. Now solution is perfect though and they've largely been less awful than the alternatives.

                        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                        but they only port Windows driver to Linux.
                        As long as they integrate it into Linux what's the problem with that?

                        If it works, we get similar performance to what Windows users enjoy. They're not porting Windows to Linux, only parts of their driver that they also ship for the Windows platform. So do ATI by the way. They both see it as a sensible strategy.

                        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                        They're slowly improving some things and add needed or not features, but it seems they don't care about the complaints.
                        In the same way ATI customers are saying AMD don't care about them?

                        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                        I have a very bad experience with nvidia related people.
                        And many also have issues with AMD. No body's perfect. Who is less good is what's important to be aware of.

                        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                        I even consider it's a Windows fanboys company.
                        Sounds ridiculous to me. Fanbois exist on both sides of the fence. It's just that the nVidia fanbois have an easier time of it than do the ATI/AMD ones at the moment.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
                          They care about their users and are realistic. I can't say the same for a lot of you out there.
                          I don't think so. They care only for their interests and maybe that's why nvidia driver sux on desktops (yeah, it sux even if it's better then fglrx or os drivers), but it seems works great in enterprise.

                          Blind extremism is the thing I hate most in the GNU/Linux world, even more than a blob driver.
                          Blind extremism fits the best when comes to companies like MS, Apple, nVidia and SUN. They behave like some sect or something and I can only imagine brainwash their employers took. There are real reasons why to be against blobs right now: they introduce unstability, promote their ways of doing things (look at wine+nvidia), doesn't work out of the box, we're put at their mercy (maybe nvidia will add KMS support in few years or maybe not...).

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                            In what way do they care less about Linux users than ATI does?
                            They didn't release specifications. However, I'm not comparing them to AMD. If I said nVidia doesn't care about its users it doesn't mean AMD cares more (but when comes to specifications I think they do).

                            As long as they integrate it into Linux what's the problem with that?
                            The question could be about this integration, it's not so good in my opinion. No KMS, slow 2D.

                            Sounds ridiculous to me. Fanbois exist on both sides of the fence. It's just that the nVidia fanbois have an easier time of it than do the ATI/AMD ones at the moment.
                            Yes, they do. Or maybe it's because nVidia has some forums and Ati has not.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                              They didn't release specifications. However, I'm not comparing them to AMD. If I said nVidia doesn't care about its users it doesn't mean AMD cares more (but when comes to specifications I think they do).
                              I'd rather they'd release specs. It's just when I come to spending my money I need something to work. That's what I and most people do. If nVidia stop producing viable choices they will go away.


                              Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                              The question could be about this integration, it's not so good in my opinion. No KMS, slow 2D.
                              I do hope they do something with KMS support but I'm not holding my breath. As for slow 2D, I don't have it here on my current 9800GT. It's driving two screens at once as well. I'll be putting the new card in soon so I wonder what I'll be facing then.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                                I never said it was. It doesn’t take a brain surgin to know that they shouldn’t unnecessarily break either fglrx or nVidia’s blob though.
                                Recurcive argumentation. A is B because B is A. What the fsck is your point? You didn’t have one, ‘cus I made one: Why does the free software X.org, being a refference implemenation of X11, that has its own free drivers, stop and considder supporting a commercial closed source driver that’s in development outside of X.org, which completely doesn't give a fsck about whether X.org wants to move on or uses new tech, when it already has Noveau? Care to explain? Or care to shut up? Choose one...


                                Don’t you understand that some people need to use fglrx?
                                What the fsck is this for a shewbacca defense?! Realy... This makes zero sense...

                                When they do, do you suggest that they reconfigure their machines to use the FLOSS drivers when they need to playback video? Doesn’t sound very inconvinient does it.
                                X.org ships nv-blob by default? What? I think it is the other way around, but that might just be me

                                That wasn’t me who brought up those cards. Go back and read the name of the poster. Now who’s being full of shit V!NCENT.
                                You’re still full of shit, or troll.... or both. Anyway I made a mistake reading Phoronix with my mobile slow-ass phone and got it mixed up in tha baking sun while being on a bus without airconditioning on. Sorry dude....

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