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X.Org SoC: Gallium3D H.264, OpenGL 3.2, GNU/Hurd

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  • #16
    @bridgman

    Now the company is Google I think it is just a matter of time till Googles releases VP7 as open source and use that for youtube. Currently they don't have to pay for h264 content, but i think they want to be prepared to switch.

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    • #17
      It's still ON2, isn't it ? AFAIK the company was purchased by Google but is still operating as an independent entity so far...

      Opening up VP7 would sure solve a lot of problems.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        Opening up VP7 would sure solve a lot of problems.
        I'm not so sure about that. I don't think it's better than Theora (or atleast not by much) quality-wise. And afaik the biggest problems Nokia and Apple have with Theora is the lack of dedicated hardware-decoders, especially in already existing devices like the iPhone and N900. And this is no different with VP7 as far as I can tell.

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        • #19
          Guys, isn't it VP8 we're hoping to open up? 7 wouldn't be as useful.

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          • #20
            Right VP8 is the latest.

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            • #21
              VP6 is the most widespread so that too.

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              • #22
                I wasn't aware of that.

                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                I really believe that the "missing link" so far has been someone grafting libavcodec onto the driver stack so that processing can be incrementally moved from CPU to GPU.

                Also, I forgot to mention that the other benefit of a shader-based implementation is that there are a lot of cards in use today which have a fair amount of shader power but which do not have dedicated decoder HW (ATI 5xx, for example).
                I knew that awhile back attempts were made to use shaders to handle specific aspects of the decode process, but then I don't recall anything else from the dev. I also don't recall what codec was worked upon. A problem, IIRC, was that the shaders were fairly slow in their efforts , but I don't recall what hardware it was being tested upon. Presumably, as you say, a more modern card would be better able to handle the load. A question I always had was one of power efficiency. Offloading for high bitrate material is a necessity, certainly, but for a lower bitrate target I wonder if a cpu wouldn't be more efficient, especially for a simpler codec like Theora.

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                • #23
                  The work over Gallium3D was with MPEG2, using the XvMC API, mostly by Younes Manton on Nouveau :

                  http://bitblitter.blogspot.com/

                  Cooper then got a good chunk of that code running on the 300g ATI driver before getting dragged off to other projects.

                  Somewhere in there a video API was defined and at least partially implemented, not exactly sure who did what there.

                  I don't think we have any good power efficiency numbers yet re: whether CPU or GPU shaders do the offloadable work more efficiently. First priority was offloading enough work to the GPU so that the remainder could be handled by a single CPU thread, since the MT version of the CPU codecs wasn't very mature, and without the ability to use multiple CPU cores anything near 100% of a single core meant frame dropping and other yukkies.

                  Since then, multithread decoders seem to have become more stable (at least more people seem to be using them), so the pull for GPU decoding has dropped somewhat. I don't know the status of the MT codecs right now, ie whether they are easily accessible to all users or whether they still need a skilled user to build and tweak 'em.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    The work over Gallium3D was with MPEG2, using the XvMC API, mostly by Younes Manton on Nouveau :

                    http://bitblitter.blogspot.com/

                    Cooper then got a good chunk of that code running on the 300g ATI driver before getting dragged off to other projects.

                    Somewhere in there a video API was defined and at least partially implemented, not exactly sure who did what there.

                    I don't think we have any good power efficiency numbers yet re: whether CPU or GPU shaders do the offloadable work more efficiently. First priority was offloading enough work to the GPU so that the remainder could be handled by a single CPU thread, since the MT version of the CPU codecs wasn't very mature, and without the ability to use multiple CPU cores anything near 100% of a single core meant frame dropping and other yukkies.

                    Since then, multithread decoders seem to have become more stable (at least more people seem to be using them), so the pull for GPU decoding has dropped somewhat. I don't know the status of the MT codecs right now, ie whether they are easily accessible to all users or whether they still need a skilled user to build and tweak 'em.
                    The status of MT is that ffmpeg-mt blows. Better than a single thread, but it pretty much requires a 4-core chip in order to play a typical 10GB/movie file. The coreavc hacks (i.e. wine+coreavc+mplayer) work OK, seems to degrade output quality as the CPU limits are reached rather than dropping frames and going out of sync. Still pretty well maxes out a 2-core CPU and gets the heat up so much that you end up with the vacuum cleaner effect (unless you have a ***HUGE*** heat sync and a big slow fan). Vacuum cleaner effect + movie == very bad.

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                    • #25
                      OK, I guess it might be interesting to see if anyone is actively profiling that code to see where the CPU time is going, and how much of that time is going to "shader-friendly" tasks like MC and filtering.

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