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Plymouth Gets Tighter Integration With GDM, X

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  • #16
    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    Heh, it's impossible to read a Gnome-related discussion without KDE trolls showing up around here.

    Seriously guys, who the hell gives a damn whether KDE is configurable out of the box? This a news item about Plymouth and GDM for Christ's sake!
    If you're using standard APIs, it should work for both GDM and KDM, not just GDM. All I know is that Linux should be all about standards and maximizing competition and choice, and that can't be done without putting standards that allow interoperability at the top of the agenda. Plymouth should be able to communicate with either display manager using the same API.
    Last edited by Yfrwlf; 11-29-2009, 03:59 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
      If you're using standard APIs, it should work for both GDM and KDM, not just GDM. All I know is that Linux should be all about standards and maximizing competition and choice, and that can't be done without putting standards that allow interoperability at the top of the agenda. Plymouth should be able to communicate with either display manager using the same API.
      Standards do not come out of thin air. You do not create a standard and then implement it. You implement something, and if other people become interested in this you can all get together and crystallize the functionality into a standard.

      Fedora patched GDM to allow this functionality. If a KDM developer finds this useful she can do the same, thus giving birth to a de facto standard. If other developers become interested, this can be turned into a real standard.

      Any other approach is just bollocks, as have been proven time and time again. The Plymouth hook is there, if you wish to see this in KDM ping a developer or get coding.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Chewi View Post
        Gah, there I am thinking this is kinda cool and then I walk straight into the oldest flame war in the book. Grow up, guys, geez.
        Nonsense. I believe the oldest flamewar is vim vs. emacs.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DoDoENT View Post
          And what about KDM? Why are KDE users always left behind?
          I think that in Fedora things works sort of like this:
          - Red Hat focus is on GNOME, so they develop everything in GNOME before;
          - if a Red Hat employee or a volunteer wants to get things integrated they are free and welcome to do it. But that's not a prerequisite to ship a new software.

          Think of PolicyKit 1, David Zeuthen (Red Hat employee) and Dario Freddi (KDE volunteer). It works like this for a lot of other things, and it applies to Ubuntu / Kubuntu to some extent too.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
            If you're using standard APIs, it should work for both GDM and KDM, not just GDM. All I know is that Linux should be all about standards and maximizing competition and choice, and that can't be done without putting standards that allow interoperability at the top of the agenda. Plymouth should be able to communicate with either display manager using the same API.
            So what happens when a standard API does not exist?

            Yes, this is what happened here: they created something new to cover a need for which there was no standard API. This is how it was always done and how it will always be done.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DoDoENT View Post
              And what about KDM? Why are KDE users always left behind?
              How many corporate installs of KDE with a service contract are there?

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              • #22
                That's a moot point. You cannot count that, and any stats from Redhat which supports just Gnome will not prove anything.

                Any online pools show that both KDE and Gnome have big usershare. Furthermore both Qt and GTK+ are part of LSB.

                I'm sorry but with the current mind set, KDE people will need to hack on Xserver or write their own Xserver soon, because it may become to tied to Gnome. I'm exaggerating sure, but it shows the current situation. Yet again you see KDE users complaining in gnome topic, you do not see the other way around so that has to mean something, or do you really think that all the trolls live just on the K front ? It just means KDE users have some good reasons to complain that's all.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Melcar View Post
                  Nothing wrong with GNOME. All they need to do is fix their damn panels and menu. As is, KDE is a far better desktop, though gtk apps. are for the most part superior to qt ones.
                  Actually, qt apps are superior to gtk apps. To name just few: Amarok, Kate, Ktorrent, Akregator, SMPlayer...

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                    Yet again you see KDE users complaining in gnome topic, you do not see the other way around so that has to mean something, or do you really think that all the trolls live just on the K front ?
                    No, but the force is certainly strong on the K front. :P

                    It just means KDE users have some good reasons to complain that's all.
                    If that was true, you'd see KDE developers complain - not users. This is not the case, which means this is plain old trolling by angsty KDE users worrying about their DE's sexual orientation (tm).

                    In all seriousness, improvements in the Gnome stack do not endanger the KDE ecosystem (or vice versa). Not to mention that Fedora's raison d'Ítre is to develop and test bleeding-edge code - if this patch proves beneficial it will be adopted upstream and implemented by all affected parties (including KDM). There's nothing nefarious, there's no big conspiracy to lock KDE out of anything ("all I hear these days is Gnome" types of comments). This plain, honest, open-source software development.

                    And I simply cannot understand all this animosity emanating from KDE users. Every single DE-related topic here is littered, flamed and finally derailed by angry KDE users trolling about Win98 wannabies, Microsoft sell-outs, Gnome conspiracies, Hitler, Nazis and the end of the world.

                    Come on guys, give it a rest. Your DE rocks, it's the bestest, seriously. Now can we all live together in peace, without flames on every single Gnome-related topic? (Pretty sure world peace is just round the corner once we can do that).

                    Edit: spelling.
                    Last edited by BlackStar; 11-30-2009, 05:42 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                      Actually, qt apps are superior to gtk apps. To name just few: Amarok, Kate, Ktorrent, Akregator, SMPlayer...
                      As a KDE user I can only say that this is true only if you count _only_ Qt3 applications. They are superior to gtk applications, but most of qt4 applications aren't mature yet (e.g. Amarok2, KOffice2, KBluetooth4, ...)

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                      • #26
                        Guys, are you really sure a discussion on the relative superiority of qt3, qt4 and gtk apps belongs to a Plymouth-related thread? (Not to mention the inanity of the notion that the windowing toolkit has something to do with the superiority or inferiority of an application).

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by BlackStar View Post

                          In all seriousness, improvements in the Gnome stack do not endanger the KDE ecosystem (or vice versa). Not to mention that Fedora's raison d'Ítre is to develop and test bleeding-edge code - if this patch proves beneficial it will be adopted upstream and implemented by all affected parties (including KDM). There's nothing nefarious, there's no big conspiracy to lock KDE out of anything ("all I hear these days is Gnome" types of comments). This plain, honest, open-source software development.
                          Gnome people aren't better. Believe or not, but some people say there's such gnomocentrizm, because of some political reasons.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                            Guys, are you really sure a discussion on the relative superiority of qt3, qt4 and gtk apps belongs to a Plymouth-related thread?
                            No, but sometimes it is better to correct some things.

                            (Not to mention the inanity of the notion that the windowing toolkit has something to do with the superiority or inferiority of an application).
                            There are some nice tools to make feature rich UI on QT side
                            Last edited by kraftman; 11-30-2009, 06:21 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                              Guys, are you really sure a discussion on the relative superiority of qt3, qt4 and gtk apps belongs to a Plymouth-related thread? (Not to mention the inanity of the notion that the windowing toolkit has something to do with the superiority or inferiority of an application).
                              you still have to understand how flamewars work. It is NOT about arguments or logic

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by madman2k View Post
                                you still have to understand how flamewars work. It is NOT about arguments or logic
                                I stand corrected...

                                Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                                Gnome people aren't better. Believe or not, but some people say there's such gnomocentrizm, because of some political reasons.
                                ...and I think I know *exactly* what we need.

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