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It Looks Like X.Org 7.5 Will Be Released Late

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  • It Looks Like X.Org 7.5 Will Be Released Late

    Phoronix: It Looks Like X.Org 7.5 Will Be Released Late

    Last week we asked the question of whether the X.Org 7.5 release schedule will be met. This X.Org / X Server update has already been delayed multiple times and it is currently running behind with their current release plans...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzM4NA

  • #2
    "As of yet, there is no official communication whether X.Org 7.5 is being delayed or not, which leaves some distribution vendors and others in the dark."

    https://features.opensuse.org/306903

    https://features.opensuse.org/306657

    they certainly want it.

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    • #3
      Well then what's holding 7.5 up, and who's offering to fix it?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by R3MF View Post
        In *buntu too!
        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Roadmap/Karmic

        I think a bit transparency and updated public info is not much to ask for, even if these people are (many of them) volunteers. The benefit is enormous, and the cost is very, very small (just send an update to the mailing list every couple days).

        Comment


        • #5
          Hardly shocking... its been their pattern as of late. The last version was delayed for a very long time...

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          • #6
            XOrg or XMess?

            How many forks or alternatives are needed for having a proper X11 project? This is very ridicule and one of the main problems damaging the entire UNIX/UNIX-like family, specially the FOSS part of it.

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            • #7
              Whining is silly

              I don't get it, xorg doesn't really owe anybody anything. If companies need it so bad, they should provide engineers to the project. If we users need it that bad, then we should do it ourselves or pay for it. Maybe we're just spoiled by the kernel guys being so quick?

              I think like many organizations, xorg may need some competition to motivate themselves. KDE vs gnome is great. I think either one would be worse off if the other didn't exist.

              And I hope the day comes soon where X is dropped as the linux desktop and demoted to a compatibility layer. Sometimes it's good just to start over. Stuff like wayland seems to be the future.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ant P. View Post
                Well then what's holding 7.5 up, and who's offering to fix it?
                Pick a set of features, make the features work, fix regressions, select versions of packages to bundle, test to ensure that the packages all work together correctly, then ship.

                If it seems like it takes forever, it's because we're understaffed.

                Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                XOrg or XMess?

                How many forks or alternatives are needed for having a proper X11 project? This is very ridicule and one of the main problems damaging the entire UNIX/UNIX-like family, specially the FOSS part of it.
                Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize there were any forks of Xorg. I also didn't realize that forking was necessary for proper community collaboration. Clearly, I'll defer to your massive expertise in the area.

                Originally posted by garytr24 View Post
                I don't get it, xorg doesn't really owe anybody anything. If companies need it so bad, they should provide engineers to the project. If we users need it that bad, then we should do it ourselves or pay for it. Maybe we're just spoiled by the kernel guys being so quick?

                I think like many organizations, xorg may need some competition to motivate themselves. KDE vs gnome is great. I think either one would be worse off if the other didn't exist.

                And I hope the day comes soon where X is dropped as the linux desktop and demoted to a compatibility layer. Sometimes it's good just to start over. Stuff like wayland seems to be the future.
                Those companies (off the top of my head: AMD, Apple, Canonical, Nokia, nVidia, Red Hat, Sun, SUSE, Via, VMWare) already provide manpower. People like myself, and many other developers, do contribute code, and occasionally money is given to certain developers in order to provide incentive.

                I think you're missing the part where our ratio of developers, to old crufty code from over a decade ago, is very low.

                Sure, bring on the competition. In case you haven't noticed, the reason we have no competition is because writing X is hard. It is hard to write this stuff.

                Wayland was written by an X developer. It doesn't replace the X server, it hosts X servers. Moreover, it's an experiment, not Moses on the mountain. Seriously. People thought the same thing about Xgl and glitz, back in the day. (Of course, "back in the day" is somewhere between three years ago, or last week, depending who you ask.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MostAwesomeDude View Post
                  Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize there were any forks of Xorg. I also didn't realize that forking was necessary for proper community collaboration. Clearly, I'll defer to your massive expertise in the area.
                  Isn't Xfree still alive somewhat ? I guess he was refering to the fact that X.org is a fork of Xfree ... So I guess what it's all about is that X.org was forked of Xfree just becuase Xfree wasn't working as it should and wasn't moving to the future... So the thing is people now are not happy with progress that Xorg has made so some suggest another fork or a new server ...

                  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and please note it's not my opinion that Xorg needs a fork :P

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                    Isn't Xfree still alive somewhat ? I guess he was refering to the fact that X.org is a fork of Xfree ... So I guess what it's all about is that X.org was forked of Xfree just becuase Xfree wasn't working as it should and wasn't moving to the future... So the thing is people now are not happy with progress that Xorg has made so some suggest another fork or a new server ...

                    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and please note it's not my opinion that Xorg needs a fork :P
                    Both were once a fork. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System

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                    • #11
                      With all due respect to the X.org developers:
                      I think we can call it a fact that X.org deadlines aren't being met. As far as I know these deadlines are set by a couple of X.org developers themselves, and not outside forces. Now if this were to be true then it would mean that the X.org project is, presently, unreliable with regards to new releases, and distro's should start taking that into account.

                      I get that X development is difficult, and that the X.org project is quite understaffed. However, then don't set unrealistic road maps, it only leads to frustration and troubles. One solution would be to have a previously defined number of releases per year (1 could suffice, given the current situation of under-staffing), look at which features are realistic to implement with the given resources, and stick to it. It would certainly improve goodwill of others dependent on X.org and lessen criticism.

                      What also might help is to write some great documentation on X.org programming, that even people without special gfx driver programming background can follow. It takes an investment initially (which is the main problem with this proposal), but I think that it could yield at least a couple of new X.org developers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by val-gaav View Post
                        Isn't Xfree still alive somewhat ? I guess he was refering to the fact that X.org is a fork of Xfree ... So I guess what it's all about is that X.org was forked of Xfree just becuase Xfree wasn't working as it should and wasn't moving to the future... So the thing is people now are not happy with progress that Xorg has made so some suggest another fork or a new server ...

                        Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and please note it's not my opinion that Xorg needs a fork :P
                        Forks don't happen because "people" are unhappy. Forks happen because developers are unhappy. I'm sorry to say people that bitch in forums and even write the articles don't really matter to us. If you feel X.org owes you something, you probably owe it more.

                        The crap Michael says about distros needing X.org releases with new features isn't really true. They might like to have it, but unless they are contributing developers they don't *need* it, so without the developer contribution they don't get to set the schedule or bitch when the schedule slips. They just get to keep going with what they have today.

                        The only distro vendor actively contributing to the X server development process in terms of contributing new code and features that they want to see in their distro is Red Hat. Other distros provide contributions in terms of bug tracking and tracking driver issues but doing that doesn't give you anything other than a better X.org 7.4, it doesn't make an X.org 7.5

                        Non-distro contributions are the other major part with companies like Intel pushing the framework forward also where they need it themselves, and independent developers scratching itches all over the place.

                        Dave.
                        Dave.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have got a small distro, i of course want that all my users are happy with the distro and therefore the X drivers have to work. I can not use my time to develop X drivers myself, maybe i find a hack to make one of my own cards to work with some bugs, but basically i can only report problems to upstream. What you refer to can only be done by really huge distribuitions.

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                          • #14
                            I was just thinking that, even if x.org is a major component of any linux distro, it's free software. One of the caveats of that is that the developers will release it when they're ready, not when some company gives a deadline they'd like something by.
                            If people want it done by a certain time, they should help make it be done by that time. With that said, I hope more companies & people can help in the development of x.org (I'd like to, but simply don't have the free time).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think you're missing the part where our ratio of developers, to old crufty code from over a decade ago, is very low.
                              I think that's part of what I'm trying to say. For regular desktop use, something like quartz in OSX is really slick, and something like that could develop independently from X with a fresh codebase. I wish I knew enough about it to do it myself.

                              Wayland was written by an X developer. It doesn't replace the X server, it hosts X servers. Moreover, it's an experiment, not Moses on the mountain. Seriously. People thought the same thing about Xgl and glitz, back in the day. (Of course, "back in the day" is somewhere between three years ago, or last week, depending who you ask.)
                              I think he's also working on a clutter backend and gtk, so it doesn't only manage x servers, it could be a real live desktop. I used XGL :-).

                              Kristian Hogsberg discusses porting gui toolkits over to it here.
                              http://groups.google.com/group/wayla...bb8aa133?pli=1

                              I don't think the failure of a project makes for a very good argument against starting projects. Take Windows and x86. People continue to do stuff inelegantly for years for the sake of backwards compatibility. It's nice that the ABI's don't change, but itanium really is a better way to do things. Also, the switch to 64-bit hasn't really happened smoothly or quickly on that platform compared to linux.

                              I think linux/unix is in a different position because people keep source code for things and have free compilers. Backwards-compatibility is more important for people that lose their source code.

                              So now, people are whining that stuff isn't moving fast enough, which means they prefer latest and greatest over compability with old stuff.

                              All this to say, compared to proprietary software stacks, the free software community has less to lose and more to gain by trying new things instead of only building on old ones.
                              Last edited by garytr24; 07-16-2009, 05:18 PM.

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