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Which Linux Graphics Driver Bugs Do You Hate?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by bugmenot View Post
    I hate fglrx, because there are lockups from time to time in different scenarios. compiz, videos, vt switching or with full screen games while pressing alt-tab.
    I'm hoping for the free driver.
    exactly !


    fglrx | AMD/ATI catalyst !

    they:
    - don't support proper video or opengl playback during composited desktop (flickering)
    - don't support preemptive rcu
    - don't properly support fully preemptive kernel
    - don't support rt-kernel
    - often lead to black screen which can't be restored
    mostly when running composited desktop after some time
    and several users logging in and out of their account (running gdm)
    only MagicSysRQ Key works in those cases
    - STILL hardlocks kernel when logging out of the composited desktop session (using gdm) OR when being forced to restart gdm/kdm several time OR remove the fglrx kernel-module and restarting gdm
    - providing bad performance compared to an 7600 GT (I'm using an Radeon HD 4850 !)
    - their support for new linux kernel versions is ridiculous !

    I'm really looking forward to the xf86-video-radeonhd when it will be support powermanagement, 3D and other stuff properly my desktop mostly will be free
    Last edited by kernelOfTruth; 03-01-2009, 09:17 AM.

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    • #47
      Well now that we have X Server 1.6, a vast majority of my complaints (two years now) have gone out the window. Now all I wish for is proper VSYNC and VT switching (without freezing).

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Hephasteus View Post

        I just reset up windows XP and fedora 10 and hands down fedora 10 beat windows to a pulp. Configuring repositories, installing few drivers, getting flash working versus hours of installing tons of drivers and driver packages under windows. I couldn't believe how things have turned so ugly for microsoft on hardware support. Granted the end result under windows is bit more polished but at this rate in 2 years nobod will want to set up windows because it will be considered HARD versus linux.
        Take a linux distro from the 2001 era and see how well it runs out of the box on your modern system. Slipstreaming and integration of XP patches and drivers can relieve the issues you have with windows XP. nLite makes the whole process painless. In contrast if you downloaded the Windows 7 Beta you would see that on modern hardware even things like tv cards, bluetooth, sli, fakeraids, etc are supported on a vast majority of hardware out of the box, what isn't is usually easily found with a windows update. Comparing a OS that was put together 7+ years ago to one that was released a few days ago isn't exactly a fair comparison when it comes to what it supports out of the box.

        Let's be fair, if someone was to compare Windows 7 to Redhat 7.2 there would be a lot of screaming.

        It's hard to believe i have supported opengl 3.0 on linux and only 2.1 on windows.
        Not sure what video card you have but both ATI and Nvidia have ogl3 window drivers.
        Last edited by deanjo; 03-01-2009, 10:03 AM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dragoran View Post
          The people writing the new features (VDPAU is meant here) aren't the same who are responsible for the X11 or kernel parts where the bugs are. So adding this new features does not take man power away from the other parts.
          You sure about that...? It doesn't look that way if you consider some postings over at nvnews.net where some of the devs state that they had a look at issue x or issue z but don't have the time to fix it just yet. Or similar things.

          Originally posted by Dragoran View Post
          There might be problems and bugs in the nvidia drivers, but they aren't that bad as this article tries to show it.
          I really beg to differ. My 8600 GTS card died on me in January and I had to get a replacement fast because I need my computer for work. Since I already tried an AMD 4870 in early Q4/2008, I decided to go with NVidia again because the experience I made with the AMD one wasn't too good, to say the least. So after driving around in my city, I ended up with a Palit 9800 GTX+ which is actually overkill for me but at least silent and was the only thing I could get which wasn't a total vacuum cleaner soundwise.

          To make a long story short: with the 8600 GTS, my system was rock solid, no freezes or anything like it, no matter what 180.xx release I used. Once I got the 9800 GTX+, I had total freezes with graphical corruption. Totally erradic. Working was impossible that way because you could get everything from zero to 10 freezes a day. Disabling the Composite Extension and similar things naturally didn't fix the issue. Only reverting back to 177.82 "fixed" it for me... well... more a workaround actually.

          Head over to nvnews.net and have a look at that lengthy thread. You will soon realize that a lot of people are bitten by this bug and there are a total of <5 dev postings there if I remember correctly which are more or less useless to be honest. And this is still ongoing since Nov 08.

          So... I'd say, and many from nvnews.net would agree, that depending on your GFX card, at least the 180.xx series is a total mess and nvidia is unable to fix it or keep their users in the loop about what's actually going on.

          Best regards,
          matthias.

          PS. I don't use Ubuntu but Gentoo on x86_64 and also tried X 1.6.0 snapshots, different kernels and what else. The bug is _clearly_ with nvidia.
          Last edited by RobotMarvin; 03-01-2009, 10:15 AM.

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          • #50
            Any

            I hate any sort of graphic card bugs, really.

            I can understand all the latest multi-gpu stuff is still rather buggy, but there really shouldn't be any excuse for basic 2D and 3D functionality to be unstable and riddled with bugs. As I don't really play games, I put my money on any card that I assume will guarantee the most trouble-free graphical experience. If ATI and NVidia don't get their act together, I can only hope one of those open-source graphical cards will see the light of day, or a third manufacturer (Intel? S3?) to gobble up some of the ATI/NVidia market share by having superior drivers for products with reasonable enough performance.

            I don't care for half-working products, be it due to hardware or software bugs. There just is no excuse for selling something that doesn't work as advertised.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by december View Post
              I hate any sort of graphic card bugs, really.

              I can understand all the latest multi-gpu stuff is still rather buggy, but there really shouldn't be any excuse for basic 2D and 3D functionality to be unstable and riddled with bugs. As I don't really play games, I put my money on any card that I assume will guarantee the most trouble-free graphical experience. If ATI and NVidia don't get their act together, I can only hope one of those open-source graphical cards will see the light of day, or a third manufacturer (Intel? S3?) to gobble up some of the ATI/NVidia market share by having superior drivers for products with reasonable enough performance.

              I don't care for half-working products, be it due to hardware or software bugs. There just is no excuse for selling something that doesn't work as advertised.

              In all fairness there really isn't a game for linux that requires multicard rendering. Even the most demanding ( which I would have to guess is ET:QW ) runs smooth as butter on semi modern hardware. The most demanding games out there usually require the use of wine, native ports are pretty easy on the requirements.

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              • #52
                The _by far_ biggest problem is the miss of Hybrid Power in the nVidia-driver. Bad enough, that such a feature is needed - GPU makers (ATI isn't better) should be able at least not to increase their idle power consumption over the time (they did by factor 3 over the last 3 years), as CPU makers did - but as they were unable to solve the problem the easy way, at least the complicate way should be allowed for non-Vista-users. In some parts of the world electrical power is expensive enough to need more money to run a modern GPU for 1 1/2 years in idle mode than to buy it!

                Another issue is the intel 3D driver. Yes, their hardware sucks in 3D performance; it sucks deadly - but their crappy drivers make this suck even more. Their 3D performance is _4 times_ better on MacOS and I'm sure, the driver isn't perfect there too...

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by TheK View Post
                  The _by far_ biggest problem is the miss of Hybrid Power in the nVidia-driver. Bad enough, that such a feature is needed - GPU makers (ATI isn't better) should be able at least not to increase their idle power consumption over the time (they did by factor 3 over the last 3 years), as CPU makers did - but as they were unable to solve the problem the easy way, at least the complicate way should be allowed for non-Vista-users. In some parts of the world electrical power is expensive enough to need more money to run a modern GPU for 1 1/2 years in idle mode than to buy it!

                  Another issue is the intel 3D driver. Yes, their hardware sucks in 3D performance; it sucks deadly - but their crappy drivers make this suck even more. Their 3D performance is _4 times_ better on MacOS and I'm sure, the driver isn't perfect there too...
                  On the newer nvidia cards hybrid power really isn't needed. a GTX 280 for example uses 25 watts when not running in premium 3d mode. ATI on the other hand will gobble the power just sitting idle. It's even less with the new die shrinks.

                  Now lets put some real world numbers behind the "green" concern

                  25 watts = 25 watts per hour.
                  25 watts per hour = .025 kWh usage in an hour.
                  .025 kWh x .12 cents = .003 cents per hour
                  16 hours a day x 365 = 5840
                  5840 hours x .003 cents per hour = 17.52 per year.
                  17.52 per year divided by 12 months = $1.46 a month.

                  Even with running that card in premium mode for a while (say 10-20%) it still amounts to a paultry amount. Chances are you waste more money on leaving some lights on at home through out the year.


                  http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/video/...-gt2xx-p4.html
                  Last edited by deanjo; 03-01-2009, 12:04 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Remco View Post
                    The absence of VTs.
                    The absence of kernel panic notifications.
                    The absence of monitor hot-plugging.

                    Proprietary NVIDIA driver, obviously.
                    Yeah, I have none of those issues with the Proprietary NVIDIA driver. Not a single one of those has affected me, other than kernel panics, but then, I only had kernel panics with fglrx.

                    I had, until last week, a radeon HD 4650 in my system. After 3 catalyst releases, each of which fixed old bugs while introducing new bugs, I just ripped the card out of the system and have it sitting in the closet.

                    I replaced it with a NVidia 9400GT. Cheap card, not nearly as fast as my 4650, but it works.

                    I had been a NVidia user for years prior to the Radeon purchase, and I had always taken for granted the fact that NVidia drivers more or less work under Linux, no questions asked. The list of problems I had with fglrx was nothing short of mind boggling, and it astounds me that ATI can foist fglrx upon the general public. It's barely alpha quality.

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                    • #55
                      I keep reading all these issue people have with the ati drivers and how they are just so horrid and widespread. Besides an incomplete or missing feature, none of which have ever been more than a 'oh hey, it would be nice if they would add this', it has always worked for me. I've used various version of Ubuntu, Mandrake and Suse and no issues.

                      Point is, both nvidia and ati have issues with their drivers. You know this as well as the rest of us, so please stop being so immature as to trash talk one company and make it seem like the other is perfect.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by sabriah View Post
                        What bugs me the most are not the graphics drivers per se, but the audio drivers.

                        I have to, and far too often, kill X in order to restore the sound. And, logging out and logging in as another user often produce a mute computer.

                        I have still not understood the pattern but I think the graphics drivers are interlinked to tis issue, in some way. Maybe someone knows better.

                        I run Debain Sid/Experimental with KDE4 and the latest nvidia drivers on a 8800GT.
                        If you use Sid you can't expect anything to work well. In fact, the official stance is that you should _expect_ frequent breakage.
                        So here's my advice to you: switch to Debian testing or another distro, and see what happens.

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                        • #57
                          I own computers with intel, ATI and Nvidia graphics cards.
                          Sure, they all have bugs, but I'd definitely rate them in this order

                          Intel
                          Nvidia
                          RadeonHD
                          ...
                          ...
                          ...
                          ...
                          Catalyst
                          Last edited by SyXbiT; 03-01-2009, 12:54 PM.

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                          • #58
                            25 watts = 25 watts per hour.
                            25 watts per hour = .025 kWh usage in an hour.
                            .025 kWh x .12 cents = .003 cents per hour
                            16 hours a day x 365 = 5840
                            5840 hours x .003 cents per hour = 17.52 per year.
                            17.52 per year divided by 12 months = $1.46 a month.
                            Something seemed odd about your numbers. The result is right but...

                            25 watts = 25 watt-hours per hour.
                            25 watt-hours per hour = .025 kWh usage in an hour.
                            .025 kWh x 12 cents = 0.3 cents per hour (or 0.003 dollars/hour)
                            16 hours a day x 365 = 5840
                            5840 hours x 0.3 cents per hour = 17.52 per year.
                            17.52 per year divided by 12 months = $1.46 a month.

                            Things like that catch my eye. It's what happens when your father is an accountant
                            Last edited by bridgman; 03-01-2009, 12:48 PM.

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                            • #59
                              Whoa, 6 pages already

                              Guess people really hate graphics driver bugs. Me too.

                              In no particular order:

                              Neomagic - XV has moving colorful pixels. Understandable as they never released docs.

                              Ati (radeon driver) - VT switch sometimes hangs, missing 3d features (comparison: q3-based games run great natively, 100+ fps, but the same games run like crap in wine, with corruption, assuming because Wine maps some features to OGL 2.0 things), sucky 2d performance
                              Ati (radeonhd): You cause a black screen and a complete hang for me.
                              Early ati (mach64): Nice otherwise, but the full potential of the cards is not used. There could be both full Render accel and better 3d, but, meh, not popular anymore, nobody capable willing to help.

                              Intel - You were great hon, but a bit too slow on the 3d side.

                              Sis - you should be eaten alive. Not only is your driver slower than vesa, it also does not have 3d accel and produces corruption. Often there's more corruption on screen than content, measured in pixels.

                              S3 - you did release some docs early. However your drivers were left rotting in Xfree 3, because you weren't popular.

                              Matrox - I was really in love with your image quality and 2d performance. You even had acceptable 3d in some games. The only thing I can whine about is the fact the drivers never used up the full potential - partly due to different microcode than in the windows drivers, partly due to something else, perhaps just nobody had interest to implement opengl 1.4, multitexturing, and other niceties.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                                25 watts = 25 watts per hour.
                                25 watts per hour = .025 kWh usage in an hour.
                                .025 kWh x .12 cents = .003 cents per hour
                                16 hours a day x 365 = 5840
                                5840 hours x .003 cents per hour = 17.52 per year.
                                17.52 per year divided by 12 months = $1.46 a month.
                                yes, US-pricing... We pay about 0.25€ per kWh here in Germany. In other words: those 25W are close to 1€ _per Week_ or about 36€ per Year. From that money I can eat for 2-3 Weeks or buy a new graphics card every 2 years.

                                The other changes I currently plan for my PC would save 25W (+12,5W for the old card), but those "great innovative GPU makers" manage to reduce this to those 12,5W in best case; several cards have even much more...

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