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  • #31
    No one's forcing you to use flash. I just find it funny that you don't want to use it even though the rest of the world does. It works. It's easy to install. It's better than having to download videos manually. You just click and view. I would be not happy if the primary way Michael chooses to link to videos were NOT flash.

    Additional links are always good, I agree. But your reasons of not using flash are laughable.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by RealNC View Post
      No one's forcing you to use flash.
      I only quote this piece of your message because the rest is entirely irrelevant.

      If he wishes to watch the video, then he has to use flash. From basic logic, see if you can figure out where I'm going.

      Comment


      • #33
        No one's forcing him to watch the video either

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          What's bad about resampling?
          It's not a lossless transformation. I didn't spend 350$ on speakers just to feed them distorted signals. I admit I would probably be hard-pressed to tell the difference in a blind listening test, but I'm a perfectionist, so it offends me when my computer does something stupid.

          I have a digital audio output on my PC, so the DAC in my speaker system (Logitech Z-5500, which I highly recommend) will see the 44.1KHz PCM data direct from the FLAC decode, or mp3 or whatever, if I send it out the alsa "hw" pcm device.

          wikipedia has an article on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_rate_conversion, but it doesn't go into detail about the kinds of distortion. It does make it clear that there is some distortion, though.


          Anyway, FWIW, OSS 4 here offers a vmix option to do 44.1kHz instead of 48.
          Good to know.
          Last edited by llama; 02-10-2009, 08:59 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by RealNC
            No one's forcing you to use flash. I just find it funny that you don't want to use it even though the rest of the world does. It works. It's easy to install. It's better than having to download videos manually.
            Not for the second one, which requires some audio filtering to make it easier on the ears to skip past the disconnected-mic noisy bits.

            You just click and view. I would be not happy if the primary way Michael chooses to link to videos were NOT flash.

            Additional links are always good, I agree. But your reasons of not using flash are laughable.
            Non-flash video doesn't require a download-then-play setup. There are moz plugins for mplayer, vlc, and gstreamer. Then you can use a decent codec like h.264. Which could probably compress the hell out of a static scene like these vids with much less fuzz far from a keyframe. (anyone else notice the text on the blackboard drifting into unreadable fuzz a while after a keyframe?) Or you could use ogg(theora+vorbis), and it would play with software that could be included by any GNU/Linux distro as part of the default install without legal worries.

            Flash (adobe's implementation) is not very good compared to e.g. mplayer. It doesn't use HW acceleration to scale video to fullscreen, so if you have anything slower than a core2, it will be all jerky if you fullscreen. Even on a core2, it uses tons of CPU. If you embed a normal video file, and someone wants to download a copy, oh look, they already have a copy in /tmp. Plus, Adobe's flash plugin only goes fullscreen if the flash applet has a button for it. And with youtube, it opens a new popup window, and seems to re-download the video or something stupid. mplayer's browser plugin just goes fullscreen with Xv like standalone mplayer. (the plugin really just runs mplayer with -wid <window ID> or something, so it's normal mplayer rendering into a window.)

            I admit flash does some things pretty well, but it's not the best solution for everything. BTW, fellow flash-dislikers, there is a FF extension that helps: http://flashblock.mozdev.org/. Then the flash plugin doesn't even run unless you click on the flash icon in the rectangle where it would appear. So no more flash adds screwing up your browser. I still just disable flash entirely in Firefox, and run Seamonkey when I find something in flash that I actually want to look at. It's pretty easy to drag&drop a link from the location bar. If you have plenty of RAM, it's nicer than having your main browser with all your tabs crash sometimes.
            Last edited by llama; 02-10-2009, 08:58 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              It is also possible to change the resampling of dmix in Alsa and force it to 44.1KHz, without the need of the useless and deprecated Open Sound System.

              http://blog.sarine.nl/2008/12/21/dmi...igh-cpu-usage/

              So, the solution would be to put this in the asound.conf or asoundrc file.

              Code:
              pcm.!default {
              type plug
              slave.pcm {
              type dmix
              ipc_key 1024
              slave {
              pcm “hw:0,0″
              rate 44100
              }
              }
              }

              ALSA should start working with this crap dmix to be able to have a good sound quality without complicated configurations, compared to windows... one day, maybe after the Linux graphics battle finish.

              Wasn't Intel planning to make a GPU with dedicated video memory? Why they don't make a working GEM/TTM and EXA/UXA for every one, not only for one graphics company...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by KDesk View Post
                Wasn't Intel planning to make a GPU with dedicated video memory? Why they don't make a working GEM/TTM and EXA/UXA for every one, not only for one graphics company...
                Maybe because they don't have the hardware specs from others companies (and also because they are not paid to work directly for the competitor).
                Even if they work for themselves (like Nvidia), at least they are making free and open things, that others can use and/or adapt if they want.
                Last edited by spykes; 02-10-2009, 04:26 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                  No one's forcing you to use flash. I just find it funny that you don't want to use it even though the rest of the world does. It works. It's easy to install. It's better than having to download videos manually. You just click and view. I would be not happy if the primary way Michael chooses to link to videos were NOT flash.

                  Additional links are always good, I agree. But your reasons of not using flash are laughable.
                  Flash sucks. Get over it.

                  The reason the "rest of the world" uses it is just illustrates the piss-poor state of Windows default players, not how wonderful or useful flash is.

                  People tried for ages to embed quicktime or realplayer or windows media player bullshit into their browsers and that software is so shitty that most users rejected it outright.

                  Flash video players exist not because they are so good, but because WMP is so shitty.

                  In Linux we don't have this problem. VLC or Mplayer or Totem can handle playing videos just fine.

                  Flash is wonderful and useful if you like:
                  1. Having videos play using twice the CPU and twice the memory usage
                  2. You like having to re-download the same video over and over and over again each time you want to use it.
                  3. You like having long waits and really really really really shitty seek performance.

                  Hell I can't even figure out how to make this particular flash player seek at all. I guess I have no choice but to sit and watch the stupid thing all the way through and god forbid I want to close my browser.

                  Because I LOVE the fact that I have to run proprietary software that has shitty and buggy performance compared to the number of high quality and fast media players.


                  Anyways the quality of the video is extremely poor and you can't hear what the person is saying nor what is on the screen. Using mplayer I can make it somewhat bearable and control audio through filters and whatnot to make it hearable, but on this flash player it is impossible.



                  Let me see how critically difficult it is to play videos that I have to download.

                  Hrmm....

                  1. Click download link
                  wait
                  2. Video plays.

                  Your right. That is way too difficult.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by KDesk View Post
                    It is also possible to change the resampling of dmix in Alsa and force it to 44.1KHz, without the need of the useless and deprecated Open Sound System.

                    Well it's the audio card driver to know what sound formats the cards can accept and then translate that into something that the card can receive without puking or having high cpu load.

                    So if people are having issues with wrong audio formats being sent to the card then this is a driver issue and if you don't want to deal with it in the future a good way is to file a bug report and hopefully it'll get fixed.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by KDesk View Post
                      It is also possible to change the resampling of dmix in Alsa and force it to 44.1KHz, without the need of the useless and deprecated Open Sound System.
                      I'm using OSS 4, not the deprecated OSS inside the Linux kernel.

                      ALSA should start working with this crap dmix to be able to have a good sound quality without complicated configurations
                      Like OSS 4?
                      Last edited by RealNC; 02-10-2009, 04:48 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by drag View Post
                        Flash sucks. Get over it.

                        The reason the "rest of the world" uses it is just illustrates the piss-poor state of Windows default players, not how wonderful or useful flash is.

                        People tried for ages to embed quicktime or realplayer or windows media player bullshit into their browsers and that software is so shitty that most users rejected it outright.

                        Flash video players exist not because they are so good, but because WMP is so shitty.

                        In Linux we don't have this problem. VLC or Mplayer or Totem can handle playing videos just fine.

                        Flash is wonderful and useful if you like:
                        1. Having videos play using twice the CPU and twice the memory usage
                        2. You like having to re-download the same video over and over and over again each time you want to use it.
                        3. You like having long waits and really really really really shitty seek performance.

                        Hell I can't even figure out how to make this particular flash player seek at all. I guess I have no choice but to sit and watch the stupid thing all the way through and god forbid I want to close my browser.

                        Because I LOVE the fact that I have to run proprietary software that has shitty and buggy performance compared to the number of high quality and fast media players.


                        Anyways the quality of the video is extremely poor and you can't hear what the person is saying nor what is on the screen. Using mplayer I can make it somewhat bearable and control audio through filters and whatnot to make it hearable, but on this flash player it is impossible.



                        Let me see how critically difficult it is to play videos that I have to download.

                        Hrmm....

                        1. Click download link
                        wait
                        2. Video plays.

                        Your right. That is way too difficult.
                        Well said, drag!

                        I really hope those running Phoronix consider what you've written as well as others who have echoed your sentiments.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hmm.. I'm not anti-flash, but would definitely prefer a free alternative! I Look forward to the ogg video html inclusion in Firefox 3.1, and it would be only logical for Phoronix to make use of that. On one condition:

                          Don't ever post a POS quality video (also the TI mini-projector video) like that again! Seriously, have Phoronix checked the videos before posting them? Assuming you did, where is the "Excuse us for the technical problems, and expect a shock if you wear headphones" note? I appreciate Phoronix trying to deliver videos from conferences, but in these cases it would be more professional to simply remove them. Also, why post videos at all, when all they show (or not show..) is irrelevant? Delivering mp3/ogg of the speeches would make more sense.
                          Last edited by numasan; 02-10-2009, 08:50 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by numasan View Post
                            Hmm.. I'm not anti-flash, but would definitely prefer a free alternative! I Look forward to the ogg video html inclusion in Firefox 3.1, and it would be only logical for Phoronix to make use of that. On one condition:

                            Don't ever post a POS quality video (also the TI mini-projector video) like that again! Seriously, have Phoronix checked the videos before posting them? Assuming you did, where is the "Excuse us for the technical problems, and expect a shock if you wear headphones" note? I appreciate Phoronix trying to deliver videos from conferences, but in these cases it would be more professional to simply remove them. Also, why post videos at all, when all they show (or not show..) is irrelevant? Delivering mp3/ogg of the speeches would make more sense.
                            Were you still watching by the last half of the first talk, when keithp got up and was demoing keystone-distortion correction with randr 1.3? You could see to white part of the projector output make the shapes he was talking about reshaping his desktop to... See, the video wasn't useless. But yeah, that was about it for the utility of the video.

                            I would have liked phoronix to mention that the quality sucks and you can't see much, so only take the time to listen (and probably not watch) if you're really interested. And seriously, edit the second vid to remove the minutes-long sections of lost audio. But I don't wish that the videos were taken down or never posted. I'm glad I heard the talks. I find it interesting to know something about the personality of the devs, which you can tell from the way they joke about things in their talk, and stuff like that.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by KDesk View Post
                              It is also possible to change the resampling of dmix in Alsa and force it to 44.1KHz, without the need of the useless and deprecated Open Sound System.
                              That just changes to another fixed frequency. I don't want any 48kHz things resampled to 44.1kHz either! Although it's mostly movies, which I play with mplayer which I have configured to use the hw pcm, not the default dmix pcm. They use the TOSLINK passthrough for AC3 & DTS, anyway. Still, there are games that output 48kHz, and stuff.

                              Still, probably useful. Thanks.

                              Wasn't Intel planning to make a GPU with dedicated video memory? Why they don't make a working GEM/TTM and EXA/UXA for every one, not only for one graphics company...
                              EXA does work for everyone. One of the talks, probably Eric's IIRC, referred to EXA as being mostly the radeon accel architecture. As other have said, other drivers can convert to UXA and/or GEM whenever they want.

                              It makes a lot of sense to do all this experimental work on just one driver (intel), because they've had to go back and re-write whole chunks of things after getting feedback from the kernel people, for example. So if they'd spent extra time because of more kinds of HW to worry about when they were just getting the first version written, it would have been more wasted work that they had to throw out.

                              There's also the fact that several of the key people (keithp and Eric Anholt, for example) are Intel employees paid to make the Intel driver work well. It's great that they're doing it by making the whole infrastructure suck less. (listen to the talks about how much memory copying used to happen, and how mesa used to need to keep a second copy of every texture in case the (lack of) memory manager tossed the old one. I remember vegastrike using huge amounts of memory on g965 a couple years ago. I think it's better now, but I also have 4GB instead of 2GB, and a lot of things have changed in vs (precompressed textures!)...)
                              Last edited by llama; 02-11-2009, 12:08 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by drag View Post
                                Well it's the audio card driver to know what sound formats the cards can accept and then translate that into something that the card can receive without puking or having high cpu load.
                                That's not a driver problem nor sound card problem, that's ALSA's problem.
                                http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Dm...und_quality.3F
                                Originally posted by alsa.opensrc.org
                                Dmix by default uses 48kHz sample rate. So, if your source is 44.1kHz, it will be upsampled to 48khz.
                                To resample from 44.1KHz to 48KHz is bad for the quality and the cpu usage.

                                Originally posted by drag View Post
                                So if people are having issues with wrong audio formats being sent to the card then this is a driver issue and if you don't want to deal with it in the future a good way is to file a bug report and hopefully it'll get fixed.
                                The problem has always been arts, esd, dmix, and currently it is Dmix or pulseaudio. If you want higher resample quality the CPU usage increases.
                                A dmix as a software mixer is bad, but now it's better than it was some years ago.

                                But sure in many cases are driver bugs.


                                And yes, Flash sucks, even more if it's close sources, it sucks more!

                                Originally posted by RealNC
                                I'm using OSS 4, not the deprecated OSS inside the Linux kernel.
                                I haven't used OSS 4.x so I can't know if it is complicated to configure or not, but to install and configure OSS without having problems... to many problems... like with pulseaudio.

                                Originally posted by llama
                                That just changes to another fixed frequency. I don't want any 48kHz things resampled to 44.1kHz either! Although it's mostly movies, which I play with mplayer which I have configured to use the hw pcm, not the default dmix pcm. To use the passthrough for AC3 & DTS. Still, there are games that output 48kHz, and stuff.
                                Yes, you are right, that's a problem, it is fixed. But to mix the sound, it has to be in one fixed frequency, so there is where we have to choose between the common audio CD 44.1KHz or DVD, games, etc.

                                I would like to know how Vista or OS X does this of resampling and mixing audio.

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