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The State Of Wayland, Weston (September 2013)

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  • The State Of Wayland, Weston (September 2013)

    Phoronix: The State Of Wayland, Weston (September 2013)

    Kristian Høgsberg has provided a status update on the Wayland project and its associated Weston reference compositor...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQ3MjE

  • #2
    Seems Weston will rely on logind, thus systemd.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by bkor View Post
      Seems Weston will rely on logind, thus systemd.
      Does that really matter? Who's going to be using Weston, as opposed to Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment or any of the other DEs which are implementing Wayland support? Weston is just an example of how DEs could go about implementing Wayland support.

      Though, having said that, I'm pretty sure that Arch pulls down Weston as a dependency of something else, I could be wrong but I think it's Mesa. This isn't really an issue with Arch because Arch uses Systemd anyhow. But if Mesa pulls down Weston, and Weston pulls down Systemd, I could see issues with distros that don't use Systemd, they may not be too happy about that.

      I probably should check my facts before I hit 'Submit Reply', but I'm not going to. So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
        Does that really matter?
        I didn't know it before that's why I commented on it. If you are not on a systemd distribution, this highly matters. Yet another option for non-systemd advocates is not there. From what I understood, Enlightenment is ok with systemd. If you really don't want systemd, seems warning signs are all around: unless you take effort to provide an alternative, your options are becoming less and less. Assuming you want to follow along with all the technology changes and use Wayland, etc.

        Note that it was also mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.

        This in relation to the previous long discussions where various people say that there must be an option other than systemd, yet do nothing at all and also ignore the things that are going on. Every time there was a clear sign to take action I'll try and comment on it. Cannot say that the signs weren't there 2 years from now!

        I wrote a blog about this, calling for actual work to be done. Basically the only response was angriness that other people aren't doing the work for them. Then various systemd using people saying: "meh".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bkor View Post
          I didn't know it before that's why I commented on it. If you are not on a systemd distribution, this highly matters. Yet another option for non-systemd advocates is not there. From what I understood, Enlightenment is ok with systemd. If you really don't want systemd, seems warning signs are all around: unless you take effort to provide an alternative, your options are becoming less and less. Assuming you want to follow along with all the technology changes and use Wayland, etc.

          Note that it was also mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.

          This in relation to the previous long discussions where various people say that there must be an option other than systemd, yet do nothing at all and also ignore the things that are going on. Every time there was a clear sign to take action I'll try and comment on it. Cannot say that the signs weren't there 2 years from now!

          I wrote a blog about this, calling for actual work to be done. Basically the only response was angriness that other people aren't doing the work for them. Then various systemd using people saying: "meh".
          OpenRC is building support for some systemd services, I imagine its use will increase once it becomes the only non-viral licensed init system to do this.
          Furthermore Etoile, Razor-Qt, KDE, Xfce, MATE, LXDE, ROX-Desktop, basically pretty much every DE other than Gnome has not made an announcement stating that systemd would become a dependency. Furthermore, many distros like Slackware and Puppy Linux will not transition to systemd due to the actual nature of the distribution. What of these?

          I'd also like to see where it was 'mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.'

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bkor View Post
            I didn't know it before that's why I commented on it. If you are not on a systemd distribution, this highly matters. Yet another option for non-systemd advocates is not there. From what I understood, Enlightenment is ok with systemd. If you really don't want systemd, seems warning signs are all around: unless you take effort to provide an alternative, your options are becoming less and less. Assuming you want to follow along with all the technology changes and use Wayland, etc.
            libwayland depends in no way or form on systemd. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from writing a compositor completely sans systemd/logind. Sorry, but in the FOSS world, demand does not generate supply; unless work has already been done by other volunteers, it's in the demanding parties hands to supply themselves.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by intellivision View Post
              OpenRC is building support for some systemd services, I imagine its use will increase once it becomes the only non-viral licensed init system to do this.
              Furthermore Etoile, Razor-Qt, KDE, Xfce, MATE, LXDE, ROX-Desktop, basically pretty much every DE other than Gnome has not made an announcement stating that systemd would become a dependency. Furthermore, many distros like Slackware and Puppy Linux will not transition to systemd due to the actual nature of the distribution. What of these?

              I'd also like to see where it was 'mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.'
              GNOME also didn't make any announcement regarding systemd. We've been through this before. Including a distribution like Slackware. That says enough IMO, Slackware goal is something similar to being in control of every little bit. Obviously they won't go for systemd. It is way more interesting that you ignore so many distributions. Oh, they use systemd! :P Furthermore, Slackware doesn't care to package GNOME, so again awesome example right there.

              Puppy Linux, never heard of it. From the website it says: "Small size, ~100MB!". Right, GNOME is way bigger than that. Yet another awesome example.

              Etoile, never heard of it. Razor-qt, that is being written. XFCE, they actually do support/rely on systemd. MATE, the same. LXDE, no idea. ROX-desktop, wtf is that?

              Anyway, your examples prove you wrong. If everything except some really specific stuff moves to systemd, then systemd it is.

              Also, calling GPL and LGPL viral: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Jeez man, 1990s have passed! Move on!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bkor View Post
                XFCE, they actually do support/rely on systemd.
                XFCE in the latest version runs fine on Slackware without systemd, so while there may be support they do not rely on it. The XFCE site does not list anything systemd related as dependency.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                  XFCE in the latest version runs fine on Slackware without systemd, so while there may be support they do not rely on it. The XFCE site does not list anything systemd related as dependency.
                  Ah, same as GNOME.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bkor View Post
                    GNOME also didn't make any announcement regarding systemd. We've been through this before. Including a distribution like Slackware. That says enough IMO, Slackware goal is something similar to being in control of every little bit. Obviously they won't go for systemd. It is way more interesting that you ignore so many distributions. Oh, they use systemd! :P Furthermore, Slackware doesn't care to package GNOME, so again awesome example right there.

                    Puppy Linux, never heard of it. From the website it says: "Small size, ~100MB!". Right, GNOME is way bigger than that. Yet another awesome example.

                    Etoile, never heard of it. Razor-qt, that is being written. XFCE, they actually do support/rely on systemd. MATE, the same. LXDE, no idea. ROX-desktop, wtf is that?

                    Anyway, your examples prove you wrong. If everything except some really specific stuff moves to systemd, then systemd it is.

                    Also, calling GPL and LGPL viral: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Jeez man, 1990s have passed! Move on!
                    Xfce and MATE do not rely on systemd, nor have they announced that they will only support it in the future.
                    Why spread FUD like this?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                      Xfce and MATE do not rely on systemd, nor have they announced that they will only support it in the future.
                      Why spread FUD like this?
                      you're full of it MATE is going to use systemd

                      http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/roadmap

                      Release 1.8

                      Replace mate-doc-utils with yelp-tools (#2)
                      Create mate-session-applet as a replacement for indicator-applet-session
                      Add window snapping to Marco (#21)
                      Support ePub format in Atril (#13)
                      Add undo functionality to sticky note applet (#17)
                      Add support for GStreamer-1.0 (#9)
                      Complete support for systemd-logind
                      Allow rotation of mate-panel background (#42)
                      Add the ability to disable volume/brightness osd (#13)
                      Offer a preferences option to turn off generic icons in listview in Caja (#26)
                      Caja: Improve trash management of removable devices
                      Migration to lcms2 in MATE image viewer (#25)
                      Fix deprecations in non-core packages
                      Add support for Metacity as window manager
                      Add support for GTK3
                      Add support for Wayland
                      Add support for AccountsService
                      Drop libmatekeyring/mate-keyring for libsecret/gnome-keyring
                      Drop libmateweather for libgweather
                      Drop libmatewnck for libwnck

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                        Xfce and MATE do not rely on systemd, nor have they announced that they will only support it in the future.
                        Why spread FUD like this?
                        Dude, I am a GNOME release team member and I help out in a distribution. We handled getting rid of ConsoleKit. Guess what is the replacement for ConsoleKit? Now I mean rely in the same way as GNOME. Meaning: GNOME 3.10 at the moment runs on OpenBSD. OpenBSD doesn't have systemd. My repeated statements that GNOME doesn't require systemd/logind are accurate according to OpenBSD. But feel free to go continue claiming otherwise, though IMO it'll look weird.

                        I might be wrong on things or misremember, but usually I have investigated it at one point or talked to someone about it. Just saying, before calling me out and someone pointing out that you're wrong, maybe better to check a little bit. Though obviously I could and I am wrong sometimes.

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