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  • #31
    Originally posted by tarceri View Post
    Intel are trying to get their chips used in mobile platforms, phone/tablets, this a big reason to be investing in Wayland/Tizen.
    But it wouldn't be a reason for them to spend time and resources developing GNOME shell, or extensions to Gnome Shell (Tizen Shell), applications/applets/extensions for it, getting the Steam client to run on it - all of these are things that do not benefit phablets at all, because the mobile phablet version of Tizen will not use Gnome shell, it will use a custom UI.

    I keep telling you, there's a mobile version of Tizen, and there's a PC version of Tizen, and it's the latter which Intel is investing in.

    I have always seen Meego/Tizen from Intels perspective as a research and development product more than anything else. Demoing what can be done and showing it off hoping that someone will pick up the technology themselves and use it (in the process purchasing many intel chips). However I expect this to be used in niche areas such as phones, in car systems, etc not as a PC.
    And yet you have no basis for that belief, it's just your opinion.

    Intel would be mad to try to take on Microsoft (one of its biggest partners) at its own game and there is little reason for Intel to do so. When they started Moblin I recall they were sick of the slow pace at which companies like Microsoft were innovating and making use of their hardware, this was when Netbooks were the latest thing and Windows was to slow and heavy to be any good at running on the first gen Atoms. These days there are other options out there helping to sell Intels hardware, Android, ChromeOS, and even dare I say it Ubuntu.
    Microsoft doesn't have partners, they have victims. Intel can certainly see the trends and read the writing on the wall: windows 8 machines are not selling, people don't want them. More and more companies are making better success by abandoning MS entirely. Intel may have been in cahoots with MS in the past but they've a big company, they've been around the block and know how the tech business works - they're not going to attach themselves to a sinking ship just out of loyalty to an ex-partner.

    Intel has plenty of reason to hedge their bets and not rely on MS. And they wouldn't be taking on MS alone, because the days of MS as a monolith are already over - there are already plenty of companies taking on MS, Intel would be just one more.

    Another reason is: simply, because they can. If Intel can sell laptops without paying the MS tax, they get more profit margin, or they can lower the prices and sell more. So if people are now willing to buy computers with non-windows OS preinstalled, there's pretty much no reason for Intel not to sell Tizen laptops.

    I wish it were true I just don't see it happening in the PC world at all. The only way I can see a Tizen PC being made is if Tizen is a huge success for Samsung on Mobile and they decide to do some kind of laptop spin off, but thats a big IF and also many years away if its going to happen at all.
    Incidentally,

    Tizen to be on everything according to Samsung Co-CEO

    I'm not saying we know for certain, because anything can happen. But it seems quite obvious that Intel, Samsung and the rest of the Tizen group have plans to release Tizen-based netbooks/laptops. There'd be no point in developing so much of the UI and the rest of the PC-version of Tizen, just to stand around hoping that someone would use it - what would they have to gain from that? Companies don't often invest money in things unless they stand to benefit from it in some way.

    That, coupled with the fact that Intel has already demoed a Tizen-based laptop, seems to me like strong indication that we'll eventually see Tizen-based laptops being sold in retail stores.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by dee. View Post
      But it wouldn't be a reason for them to spend time and resources developing GNOME shell, or extensions to Gnome Shell (Tizen Shell), applications/applets/extensions for it, getting the Steam client to run on it - all of these are things that do not benefit phablets at all, because the mobile phablet version of Tizen will not use Gnome shell, it will use a custom UI.

      I keep telling you, there's a mobile version of Tizen, and there's a PC version of Tizen, and it's the latter which Intel is investing in.



      And yet you have no basis for that belief, it's just your opinion.



      Microsoft doesn't have partners, they have victims. Intel can certainly see the trends and read the writing on the wall: windows 8 machines are not selling, people don't want them. More and more companies are making better success by abandoning MS entirely. Intel may have been in cahoots with MS in the past but they've a big company, they've been around the block and know how the tech business works - they're not going to attach themselves to a sinking ship just out of loyalty to an ex-partner.

      Intel has plenty of reason to hedge their bets and not rely on MS. And they wouldn't be taking on MS alone, because the days of MS as a monolith are already over - there are already plenty of companies taking on MS, Intel would be just one more.

      Another reason is: simply, because they can. If Intel can sell laptops without paying the MS tax, they get more profit margin, or they can lower the prices and sell more. So if people are now willing to buy computers with non-windows OS preinstalled, there's pretty much no reason for Intel not to sell Tizen laptops.



      Incidentally,

      Tizen to be on everything according to Samsung Co-CEO

      I'm not saying we know for certain, because anything can happen. But it seems quite obvious that Intel, Samsung and the rest of the Tizen group have plans to release Tizen-based netbooks/laptops. There'd be no point in developing so much of the UI and the rest of the PC-version of Tizen, just to stand around hoping that someone would use it - what would they have to gain from that? Companies don't often invest money in things unless they stand to benefit from it in some way.

      That, coupled with the fact that Intel has already demoed a Tizen-based laptop, seems to me like strong indication that we'll eventually see Tizen-based laptops being sold in retail stores.
      I'm not going to bother arguing with you as I have better things to do with my time. I asked a simple question did I miss some anouncement on the Tizen PC? And the answer seems to be no. You are simply asserting speculation as truth while at the same time berating others for doing the same thing.

      Comment


      • #33
        Wayland Release Candidates in memories of Wayland 1.2.1

        Comment


        • #34
          I doubt they would be able to pull this off, there's too many competitors on the different form factors.
          They have Android (and forks), iOS, Firefox OS, Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile, Windows Phone and Blackberry 10 to compete with if they brought a smartphone handset out right now, and then on top of that they would have to compete with Windows, OSX, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Fedora, PC-BSD and RHEL on the desktop if they were to pursue that. Their proposed changes to Gnome Shell will also break compatibility with GS extensions.

          Furthermore, Tizen will not have access to the Google Play Store, where most users have most of their purchased applications stored, so it won't really gain much from compatibility if users have to figure out how to manually install apk files.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by intellivision View Post
            I doubt they would be able to pull this off, there's too many competitors on the different form factors.
            They have Android (and forks), iOS, Firefox OS, Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile, Windows Phone and Blackberry 10 to compete with if they brought a smartphone handset out right now, and then on top of that they would have to compete with Windows, OSX, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Fedora, PC-BSD and RHEL on the desktop if they were to pursue that. Their proposed changes to Gnome Shell will also break compatibility with GS extensions.

            Furthermore, Tizen will not have access to the Google Play Store, where most users have most of their purchased applications stored, so it won't really gain much from compatibility if users have to figure out how to manually install apk files.

            Ubunto Mobile ROFL Windows Phone LOL Blackberry LOL Ubuntu Linux Mint PC-BSD LOLOLOL the Samsung's next Big Phone is going to run Tizen and how many do they sell a day? also Samsung's TV's are going to run Tizen Samsung's Phone's are top dog next to iphones Tizen will over take the Android market in weeks

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            • #36
              Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
              Ubunto Mobile ROFL Windows Phone LOL Blackberry LOL Ubuntu Linux Mint PC-BSD LOLOLOL the Samsung's next Big Phone is going to run Tizen and how many do they sell a day? also Samsung's TV's are going to run Tizen Samsung's Phone's are top dog next to iphones Tizen will over take the Android market in weeks
              [citation needed]

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                [citation needed]
                ohh sorry about that

                http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-575...ourth-quarter/
                http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-576...2014-ceo-says/

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by tarceri View Post
                  I'm not going to bother arguing with you as I have better things to do with my time.
                  Oh. Did these better things just come up, or did you just decide to ignore them when you were arguing with me for the last two posts?

                  I asked a simple question did I miss some anouncement on the Tizen PC? And the answer seems to be no. You are simply asserting speculation as truth while at the same time berating others for doing the same thing.
                  Hmm, I don't think I've asserted anything as truth, but maybe I'm mistaken. Can you point out to me where this happened?

                  I did post an announcement by Samsung Co-CEO where he says that they intend to see Tizen deployed in all sorts of form factors, including phones, tablets, cars, TV's and netbooks. Of course this doesn't mean that it happens for sure, but it does imply that there is some intention of making this happen.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    So for a citation of how Tizen is going to take over the smartphone, TV and desktop market, you have provided links to Tizen Mobile being delayed and that Tizen powered televisions might be released in 2014.
                    So, that answers basically nothing, just like your input into any Phoronix topic LinuxGamer. So unless you want to actually prove something, I think there's a new BSD or KDE topic you can bash somewhere.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                      I doubt they would be able to pull this off, there's too many competitors on the different form factors.
                      They have Android (and forks), iOS, Firefox OS, Jolla, Ubuntu Mobile, Windows Phone and Blackberry 10 to compete with if they brought a smartphone handset out right now,
                      Most of the Android "competition" is their own Samsung phones. Also, note that the smartphone market still has room to grow considerably, and can easily accommodate one or two new platforms. Maybe even more, regionally, especially considering that many of the new platforms share similar APIs that allow them to share code and applications (and 3rd-party apps can easily be ported between them).

                      WP and BB10 aren't much of a competition, those can be counted right out. WP didn't succeed with Nokia, with the departure of Nokia it's only going to do worse. BB is mostly only a thing in the USA.

                      Firefox OS mainly aims at the low end, while iOS aims at the high end exlusively. Ubuntu Mobile is still vaporware so far until we hear announcement of a native device.

                      and then on top of that they would have to compete with Windows, OSX, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Fedora, PC-BSD and RHEL on the desktop if they were to pursue that.
                      But they can bring Tizen-based computers on retail stores for average consumers. Linux and BSD are non-existent there, OS X is closely tied to Apple hardware and they have their own customer base and even their own hardware stores, so that only leaves Windows and Chrome OS to contend with.

                      Of those, considering that new computers are by now almost exclusively running Win8 - at this point, probably almost anything will sell better than Win8. Chrome OS probably won't fight for the same markets, as they're an entirely different concept.

                      Their proposed changes to Gnome Shell will also break compatibility with GS extensions.
                      They do? What changes would those be and how do you know this?

                      Furthermore, Tizen will not have access to the Google Play Store, where most users have most of their purchased applications stored, so it won't really gain much from compatibility if users have to figure out how to manually install apk files.
                      Downloading an apk isn't really an onerous task, it's equivalent to downloading a windows installer on the internet, which most windows users already know how to do. Of course it won't have access to Google's store, but I doubt that's going to be an issue. If there's users, the developers will bring the apps to them - why wouldn't they, when they don't need to do any actual porting, and they only stand to gain more money from it?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by dee. View Post
                        Oh. Did these better things just come up, or did you just decide to ignore them when you were arguing with me for the last two posts?
                        They were there all along, I tend to prefer contributing to open source projects I support rather than getting caught up in debates about them. I took the bait what more can I say other then I'm disappointed with myself.

                        Originally posted by dee. View Post
                        Hmm, I don't think I've asserted anything as truth, but maybe I'm mistaken. Can you point out to me where this happened?
                        Originally posted by dee. View Post
                        When Intel starts selling their Tizen-based ultrabooks, they're going to increase the Linux marketshare more than Ubuntu ever did.
                        Edit: If you were not just asserting speculation that would read: "If Intel starts selling their Tizen-based ultrabooks, they would increase the Linux marketshare more than Ubuntu ever did."
                        Last edited by tarceri; 09-24-2013, 11:12 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tarceri View Post
                          They were there all along, I tend to prefer contributing to open source projects I support rather than getting caught up in debates about them. I took the bait what more can I say other then I'm disappointed with myself.
                          Well, don't be too hard on yourself. I'm sure you'll forgive you.

                          *
                          Edit: If you were not just asserting speculation that would read: "If Intel starts selling their Tizen-based ultrabooks, they would increase the Linux marketshare more than Ubuntu ever did."
                          Well that maybe, but I had since that post and before your post clarified my stance, so it seems a bit disingenuous and pedantic to dig up the earlier statement.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                            I wasn't aware GPL was ever unfair. Everyone is free to use any GPL code as free GPL code. Multi-developer licensed GPL can have issues. Ask VLC how they had to rewrite perfectly good code due to a number of developers not responding or simply refusing change the license on their code when the main project decided too (I seem to remember reading ~30% of VLC code had thier devs refuse to change license and had to have the code rewritten, but I don't remember of that's true or just my bad memory) . Pretty shitty situation that is smart to avoided by CLA, that way one asshole with an axe to grind can't kill/damage an entire project.

                            link, but the whole story isn't found in this one link: http://www.videolan.org/press/lgpl-libvlc.html
                            I don't think so. People that don't like to change the license of their code do not accept to sign a CLA, for obious reasons.
                            So you lost completely that contributors, it's not "I still have their code but now I can change the license by myself".

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dee. View Post
                              Well that maybe, but I had since that post and before your post clarified my stance, so it seems a bit disingenuous and pedantic to dig up the earlier statement.
                              Whatever makes you happy.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                                I wasn't aware GPL was ever unfair. Everyone is free to use any GPL code as free GPL code.
                                True. I wouldn't object (license wise) to a project that is only available under the GPLv3 license. But Mir is only available under the GPLv3 license for the world and under any other license to Canonical.

                                This means that Canonical can use Mir in a closed source fashion, that ultimately is to the detriment of FOSS. I do not trust Canonical, so they don't get the benefit of the doubt from me.

                                The competitive landscape is skewed with Mir under the GPLv3 and CLA. Every project (outside of Canonical) using Mir, can only offer solutions licensed under the GPLv3. Which would be fine if the only option to use Mir was under the GPLv3. But it is not. Canonical has the option of selling license exceptions to handset makers.

                                Any Mir using project confined to the GPLv3 can't really make a stand towards hardware vendors, when these vendors demand licensing that lets them use Mir in a proprietary fashion. These vendors could just skip the completely FOSS project and get a closed source Mir via Canonical's CLA backdoor. This is undermining for free software.

                                If Canonical would come out and say, yes we could license proprietary, but it will be a cold day in hell before that happens, in a legally iron clad way, then I would have no objection to Mir GPLv3 + CLA. As of yet, Canonical didn't do that, so the playing field is isn't level.

                                Wayland may have a weak license, but it is completely the same for every last one of us on this planet. On top of that, the people involved with it have a good track record in the FOSS world, so I don't expect any shenanigans to come to the fore.

                                As an aside, even if Mir was GPLv3 only, this still doesn't change the fact that it is a technically redundant and fragmentary duplication of effort.

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