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Raspberry Pi Is Running Well On Wayland/Weston

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  • #31
    Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
    Once such chips are available, I'm sure you will see it.
    For now, IFC6410, quad krait.

    This rpi stuff is boring as hell. Cheap sure, but in this case, you really do only get what you pay for, which was obsolete even before they came up with the idea. It would be far more interesting if they actually updated the hardware to keep at least consistently far behind the "current standards".

    If your objective is running a graphical desktop, rpi is useless. About its only use is in automation/remote control.
    That doesn't sound boring at all! Graphical desktops, I think, are far more boring than the kind of things that people have been using the RPi for.

    I think an educational tool is useless if it can't be used to teach people how to make practical things. The RPi's success is due to the fact that it, in fact, can be used in practical, useful projects.

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    • #32
      Does anyone know if it's possible to at the same time have the Raspberry Pi output to the HDMI and RCA video two different images, screens?

      If not would the improvements in wayland and recent improvements in hardware accelerated compositing allow for such things on the Raspberri Pi?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        The Pi driver doesn't support KMS, so instead of modifying it they instead modified the Wayland backend to hook into the existing driver.

        You could modify either one to get things working.

        In this case, they decided to go ahead and do the backend so they could expose more hardware specific capabilities directly into Wayland, to increase performance. That was a specific choice they made, and one that a lot of embedded manufacturers are likely to agree with. Such things are rather common in that space - you can't even run the same ARM linux kernel on multiple devices until very recently, because everything is very SOC-specific.

        If anything has a Mesa driver, though, it likely won't need any extra work because it will probably already have KMS and other necessary driver features. That's the more generic way of getting things to work.
        mmm that seems one of the purposes of canonical using the CLA, so if hardware vendors implement their own backend they aren't forced to release the code, but I guess that wayland being MIT licensed should permit the same

        Well at the end I was just curious of how backends are implemented on wayland , statically or dynamically like drivers do. I was thinking on the stupid scenario (that may never happen) where you have a PC based on a SOC and the wayland backend was developed specifically for it. Now if that SOC got damaged and you have the OS installed on some external drive, you would just buy a new SOC, but that new SOC uses another wayland backend. Would wayland would automatically detect which backend is compatible for current used hardware like the drivers system does?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by TheOne View Post
          Would wayland would automatically detect which backend is compatible for current used hardware like the drivers system does?
          I'm not entirely sure how it works, although it appears wayland builds a separate .la file for the pi backend code.

          There has to be some kind of detection system, though. It's worth noting there were already multiple backends available before the Pi. For example, there is the standard KMS/DRM one that plugs into the Mesa drivers, and there's also a pixman based software rendering version.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            I would love to see a single-board computer with ARMv8 and 64-bit.
            ^^ This, x1000.

            An ATX or Micro ATX form factor commodity board, with 64 bit ARM v8, would be absolutely perfect for a low-power-consumption home server. I'd drop my old Opteron machines in a heartbeat for some ARM v8 commodity boards.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
              Funny how people still think that 2 Ghz Quad-Core ARMs are fast. Even 64-Bit ARMs won't be fast. The fastest ARMs get owned by a Pentium III 700 Mhz. I'm not joking.
              For a home server, that's perfect. That's plenty of HP for a home web server, or email server, or media server. And the TDP would be far far less than any Opteron or Xeon (even the low-power models). Not to mention the cost would be much less.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                Funny how people still think that 2 Ghz Quad-Core ARMs are fast. Even 64-Bit ARMs won't be fast. The fastest ARMs get owned by a Pentium III 700 Mhz. I'm not joking.

                Wayland compositors depend on KMS specifically. Just Weston happens to do that.
                Fast is a relative term.
                There is fast, compared to doing things by hand with a pencil.
                There is fast, compared to market averages.
                There is fast, compared to what will be in the future.

                Without a point of reference, you can't invoke the term "fast" to begin with.

                Although I do appreciate you providing a point of reference, being a crapium700. Yes, in fact, a quad arm WILL obliterate a crapium700. On a core-by-core basis, perhaps not obliterate, but certainly will hold its own. But also remember that those ancient intel chips were only SINGLE CORE.

                That crapium700 will also suck down enough electricity to kill an elephant.


                As about the only reference I can come up with that compares some dissimilar architectures;
                http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1270596

                No, I couldn't find a benchmark of a p3-700

                There are three runs of nbench, on a droidx 1GHz, a P4 3GHz, and an i7 3.4GHz

                The first benchmark in there is the droidx, which is a SINGLE CORE A8.
                The second benchmark in there is a DUAL CORE P4 3GHz, which appears to only be a *few* times faster than the single A8. In fact, judging by those numbers, I would expect a SINGLE CORE P3 700 MHz to ride in VERY VERY CLOSE to that SINGLE CORE A8.

                And just for fun, I ran the same benchmark on my own phone, which is a dual-core kraitv2 1.5GHz. Compared to that same dual-core P4-3000, my little krait won more than it lost. Very interesting, considering that my phone runs at... HALF THE FREQUENCY. To put that in simple language that you would understand... it completely and absolutely wipes the floor with that crappy old p3 that you suggest would run circles around a modern ARM.


                Summary: Go get some real numbers before you start spewing nonsense out on the interwebz.

                Also... you'd probably be right about the p3-700 running circles around... an rpi. rpi is a weakass piece of... poop.
                Last edited by droidhacker; 09-18-2013, 04:09 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Serge View Post
                  That doesn't sound boring at all! Graphical desktops, I think, are far more boring than the kind of things that people have been using the RPi for.

                  I think an educational tool is useless if it can't be used to teach people how to make practical things. The RPi's success is due to the fact that it, in fact, can be used in practical, useful projects.
                  ... I've suggested automation. What about that do you not understand?
                  Also, with all the bogus "developments" they're working on, THEY are clearly focusing on graphical desktops.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
                    ^^ This, x1000.

                    An ATX or Micro ATX form factor commodity board, with 64 bit ARM v8, would be absolutely perfect for a low-power-consumption home server. I'd drop my old Opteron machines in a heartbeat for some ARM v8 commodity boards.
                    64 bit is cute, but not so significantly greater performers than a good armv7. As I've suggested already, you CAN DO THIS NOW, with an armv7 that is practically as strong as an armv8. IFC6410 is a standard pico-ITX form mainboard with a quad-core krait.

                    Its even got an SATA header on the board.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                      Also... you'd probably be right about the p3-700 running circles around... an rpi. rpi is a weakass piece of... poop.
                      The RasPi's hardware is fast enough. The lack is in the software. First there's the closed GPU drivers that won't let you composite properly or playback video with gstreamer. And then, there's the unoptimised JavaScript interpreters.

                      If you have a unit, put on the newest Raspbian or even RiscOS and try out netsurf. I find it preforms exceptionally well as long as video and JavaScript aren't involved.
                      There's also a few free FPSs in Raspbian available that are running circles around anything that p3 could handle.

                      It's actually a very good demonstration of just how bad JavaScript really is...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                        jada jada jada
                        Wow some retarded benchmarks that no one actually knows how they are calculated and what a score of X means and if the points scale linear.

                        Look at some Linpack stats.

                        http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/linpack%20results.htm

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by c117152 View Post
                          The RasPi's hardware is fast enough. The lack is in the software. First there's the closed GPU drivers that won't let you composite properly or playback video with gstreamer. And then, there's the unoptimised JavaScript interpreters.

                          If you have a unit, put on the newest Raspbian or even RiscOS and try out netsurf. I find it preforms exceptionally well as long as video and JavaScript aren't involved.
                          There's also a few free FPSs in Raspbian available that are running circles around anything that p3 could handle.

                          It's actually a very good demonstration of just how bad JavaScript really is...
                          At least running less powerful hardware helps developers optimize their software so it can perform better on such environments, thanks to raspi theres now PyPy support for arm and some other cool stuff

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                            ... I've suggested automation. What about that do you not understand?
                            Also, with all the bogus "developments" they're working on, THEY are clearly focusing on graphical desktops.
                            I understood your suggestion but it appears that I misunderstood your intent. Can you clarify (and sans the rudeness this time please), then, if what you were in fact trying to say was boring to you was what you perceive to be as a focus on desktops? The way I read it, I got the impression that you were trying to say that the RPi as a whole is boring for you and that only an SBC with greater focus on desktop use would be interesting.

                            If I understand you correctly NOW, then: 1) I am sorry for having misunderstood you previously; and 2) I agree that focusing RPi development on improving its use as a desktop replacement is not very interesting.
                            Last edited by Serge; 09-18-2013, 09:51 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by c117152 View Post
                              The RasPi's hardware is fast enough. The lack is in the software. First there's the closed GPU drivers that won't let you composite properly or playback video with gstreamer. And then, there's the unoptimised JavaScript interpreters.

                              If you have a unit, put on the newest Raspbian or even RiscOS and try out netsurf. I find it preforms exceptionally well as long as video and JavaScript aren't involved.
                              There's also a few free FPSs in Raspbian available that are running circles around anything that p3 could handle.

                              It's actually a very good demonstration of just how bad JavaScript really is...
                              Yours and my definition of "fast enough" differ significantly.
                              Also, I *have* an rpi. The damned thing can barely handle an HD video with its hardware decoder, because the AUDIO overwhelms the CPU.

                              I now use it as a SPA controller.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                                Wow some retarded benchmarks that no one actually knows how they are calculated and what a score of X means and if the points scale linear.

                                Look at some Linpack stats.

                                http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/linpack%20results.htm
                                It doesn't matter WHAT it is testing, only that it is testing the SAME STUFF on all the chips.

                                A linear scale doesn't matter. What is bigger matters.
                                Yes, we do know what everything means and how everything is calculated;
                                http://www.tux.org/~mayer/linux/bmark.html


                                HAHAHAHA
                                rpi at high OC is not far off of a crapium 3-1100....
                                Raspberry Pi ARMv6-compatible Proc rev 7 (v6l) oc High: 950MHz ARM, 250MHz core, 450MHz SDRAM, 6 overvolt ? Linux 3.2.27+ gcc-4.6.3-14+rpi1 libc-2.13 3.253 4.219 2.613
                                Pentium III 1.1GHz ? Suse Linux 8.0 gcc-2.95.3 20010315 ? 4.941 4.178 9.763


                                Ah, here it is... partial results for p3-700:
                                Intel Pentium III 700 MHz 133 MHz bus ? Red Hat Linux 7.1 gcc 2.96 20000731 ? 4.464 3.866 8.417



                                In any case, what we have here is an example of some dipship (that would be you) making stupid claims without providing ANY numbers to back them up.
                                I'm sure that lots of other dipshits will fall for that and believe you, but you got called out on it this time and lost. BADLY.

                                Also, it wouldn't hurt for you to actually read the stuff in links you provide to support your claims.... because that link does NOTHING to help support your claims. Quite the opposite, they support MY claims. To such an extent that it is TRULY HILARIOUS.


                                So thanks for playing, bye.
                                Last edited by droidhacker; 09-19-2013, 08:42 AM.

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