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GNOME Shell 3.10 Is Ready To Shine On Wayland

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  • #16
    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
    Then it is a distribution problem, not upstream and you know it.
    If it's true gnome depends on systemd then it's problem for many users.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by intellivision View Post
      You forgot to add that it's too bad that Gnome depends on systemd now and that effectively wipes out many distros, unless you want to manually install your init system and risk breakage, and all non-Linux OS's are excluded now too.
      As I understood it, Gnome actually depending on systemd is just a temporary glitch.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by liam View Post
        Would you explain what you don't like about rpm/yum?
        well it's been a while since I used Fedora. however when I did there were several problems. packages used to break too frequently (dependency problems). upgrading fedora to new versions was a pain since you had to reinstall from scratch every time. and there just weren't enough packages to begin with - I had to manually build several tools I used at the time. all these problems didn't exist on Debian and Ubuntu. however I don't like the direction Ubuntu is taking lately what with Mir, Amazon etc so I'm looking for a replacement.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by amehaye View Post
          upgrading fedora to new versions was a pain since you had to reinstall from scratch every time. and there just weren't enough packages to begin with - I had to manually build several tools I used at the time. all these problems didn't exist on Debian and Ubuntu. however I don't like the direction Ubuntu is taking lately what with Mir, Amazon etc so I'm looking for a replacement.
          Upgrading without reinstalling is now actually both possible and simple in Fedora (since a few releases back).
          And I have yet to find a package that I used in Ubuntu that is not available in Fedora.
          Maybe you should give Feora a try again

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Honton View Post
            This is not true now but it might be in the future. Brcause doing anything other than systemd is a waste of time. When Debian have it packaged there is no reason to look back. Sure that means Gnome goes byebye on non-linux setups and non-sane linux distributions. That is hardly a loss.

            If Gnome needs systemd for any kind of feature during 3.12, I hope they are brave enough to just do it. Better soon than later. The same goes for depending on a kdbus enabled kernel, when that hopefully happens some times soon.
            So you actually want Gnome to loose even more users than they already have with the switch to Gnome 3? And will you be the one to explain to Debian users how to switch their systems from SystemV to systemd (I guess you know that packaging something and having it as default is not the same)?
            If something depends on a solution that is forced into the market (read: behaves like cancer) you can be pretty sure that it will have a serious loose of userbase, something which is not good for any open source project.

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            • #21
              Gnome does not depend on systemd. But if you want to be able to shutdown/suspend/... your computer you need logind running[*]. With the recent work on systemd cgroup support logind NEEDS systemd as init. Of course you always can write your own logind-service, but that would definitely be a lot of work. So as long as nobody comes up with a logind-replacement it is true that gnome depends on systemd.
              [*]
              https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-s...9b0fccbd821e97
              https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-s...a08b5588245273
              https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-s...6c7c59efc03f84

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              • #22
                Gnumb 3 ? - "Live and Let Die"

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_GNOME_3
                That pretty well sums up everything about Gnome 3, and that was the kind and polite version.

                Mother of God, atleast KDE never needed a "fork" !!!

                ...in fact, just use "Mate"-(The newer, and better "fork" of Gnome2), or Cinnamon-(The newer, and better ehhem "fork" of Gnome3).
                Unfortunately, from a Users' perspective, those Gnumb-skull devs still haven't came out of their suicidal psychosis'. Oh wait, you mean they changed that buttun's name from "Fallback" to "Classical" finally ? -uhhh, so there may be hope afterall ? ya, crap to that.

                Actually, just forget about Gnome3 period.
                Gnome3 is so desperate these days, that they are even crawling over to Lennart(pulseaudio), and his systemD'uh. Oh ya, talkin' bout systemD, it's sad that these big distro's don't quite see the advantages of adopting "OpenRC", instead of Lennart's (mostly copied from OpenRC, as well as Solaris 10's "SMF"). systemd - which is basically just a non-portable binary, non-intuitive-invisible-logging, ... blob.
                But hey, I guess it's the RedHat way, or the highway, right ?. I mean even Arch, or should I say, the new "LennArch", has also followed redhat, for quite sometime now.

                Honestly ppl, you'll be much happier using Slackware, with a nice, light, intuitive Tiling-WM, like "i3", <-
                instead of "Gnome3" <-
                Last edited by scjet; 09-18-2013, 06:11 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by scjet View Post
                  Oh wait, you mean they changed that buttun's name from "Fallback" to "Classical" finally ? -uhhh, so there may be hope afterall ? ya, crap to that.
                  Now it is GNOME Flashback.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                    Now it is GNOME Flashback.
                    I thought GnomeClassic was a special pre-configured version of gnome-shell.... This Flashback, however, uses gnome-panel...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by oleid View Post
                      I thought GnomeClassic was a special pre-configured version of gnome-shell.... This Flashback, however, uses gnome-panel...
                      GnomeClassic is a pre-configured version of Gnome-Shell to look gnome2ish... Gnome-Flashback is the legacy fallback mode aka: no gnome-shell, like old gnome 2 desktop. (ie: you can use a different compositor, like compiz, etc).

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ninez View Post
                        GnomeClassic is a pre-configured version of Gnome-Shell to look gnome2ish... Gnome-Flashback is the legacy fallback mode aka: no gnome-shell, like old gnome 2 desktop. (ie: you can use a different compositor, like compiz, etc).
                        As I thought... Then the corrosponding Wikipedia article is wrong, as it claims:

                        Fallback mode was removed in GNOME 3.8 and replaced with a suite of officially supported GNOME extensions named 'GNOME Classic'. It has now been renamed to 'GNOME Flashback'.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
                          Considering that Fedora has included patches in things as integral as GTK in past releases, there's a good possibility we'll have to patch something in order to get Mutter and the Shell running on Wayland. Arch only includes vanilla packages, which is usually a good thing, but Fedora's tight integration with GNOME and JHBuild sometimes makes it difficult for GNOME devs on Fedora to realize what's missing elsewhere.
                          I package GNOME for Mageia and I am on the GNOME release team. I unfortunately cannot follow every GNOME release using Mageia, due to the long freezes that Mageia has. However, a lot of these things are addressed. Using "ostree" (continuous integration), jhbuild and tarball releases (packaging). There is a hard code freeze between .92 (nowish) and .0 (next week). I try to ensure everything is perfect (packaging/dependency wise) before the .92, so .0 has as little as changes as possible.

                          Things I discover are forgotten version requirement changes in configure.ac, build problems with as-needed, missing build requirements, requirements on unreleased software, etc. Then the packaging results in people discovering bugs, sometimes big crashers.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                            So you actually want Gnome to loose even more users than they already have with the switch to Gnome 3? And will you be the one to explain to Debian users how to switch their systems from SystemV to systemd (I guess you know that packaging something and having it as default is not the same)?
                            If something depends on a solution that is forced into the market (read: behaves like cancer) you can be pretty sure that it will have a serious loose of userbase, something which is not good for any open source project.
                            Suggest to at least read my post regarding GNOME and systemd. A lot of the things you raise are addressed in my post.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bkor View Post
                              Suggest to at least read my post regarding GNOME and systemd. A lot of the things you raise are addressed in my post.
                              I know, GNOME is not dependent on systemd, but on logind, but since this is dependent on systemd in newer versions (there goes the modularity) it is basically the same as being dependent on systemd, unless this is not fixed (which I doubt it will ever be).

                              Originally posted by Honton View Post
                              The fix is easy. Nobody cared enough to fix it. Let the non-standard distributions sort their own problems, they chose the non-easy path.
                              Ok, and who sets these standards? You? Now somebody will come and tell me "Oh, the ones who do things!", which is a strawman, since there is no need for the distributions using SystemV to invent something new. I couldn't care less about systemd, if you people want a new init system then by all means do it, nobody cares. But forcing this into the market, spreading it like cancer, eliminating choice, will hit you in the long run in the face.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                                I know, GNOME is not dependent on systemd, but on logind, but since this is dependent on systemd in newer versions (there goes the modularity) it is basically the same as being dependent on systemd, unless this is not fixed (which I doubt it will ever be).
                                As explained in my post, GNOME only depends on logind for some things. So if you really don't want systemd/logind, then you can, but it will lack a few things. The last communication from the GNOME release team stated basically "only for non-critical functionality". At the moment, the power bit and suspend require systemd. Though with some effort a distribution could reuse the old code if it still works. Systemd makes things easier at a desktop environment level. I like Gentoo, *BSD, etc, but there is too much talk and severe lack of code contributions. At the same time, systemd allows a big simplification in the code.

                                Note that things will change with Wayland. See e.g. the logind VT switch functionality. I assume that'll be used for the GNOME Wayland support (so not Wayland in general).

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