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  • POSIX also defines the userspace along with shell and C languages
    it was made when many Unix vendors were forced to agree on some standard, so it says something about the unix way

    thx for the info about rpm
    i liked fedora but lately its grown (even more) complicated and hard headed
    still its good for most, if not all, "normal" users

    Comment


    • Originally posted by gens View Post
      POSIX also defines the userspace along with shell and C languages
      it was made when many Unix vendors were forced to agree on some standard, so it says something about the unix way
      Although I am an ordinary person, I can inform systemd is written in C and can use shell should the user wish. In addition, nothing can stop to set an aliases to
      desired commands. As pointed out, the increasing adoption of systemd displayed a natural evolution to adopt a common ground for distributions either openbsd or slackware as you listed needs to adapt or goes irrelevant.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gens View Post
        thats why fedora is moving away from the UNIX philosophy
        "does one thing and does it well"

        not that the unix way is good but
        systemd is NOT simple

        id need a week to teach someone openbsd or slackware as they are the closest to unix simplicity
        init starts one or the other rc script that starts others
        all rc scripts are simple shell scripts (in slackware and openbsd they are POSIX shell scripts)

        for systemd id have to learn a whole new syntax and many new programs
        (in init you have to learn one file (inittab) and shell scripting that you need to learn anyway along with coreutils)


        freebsd and netbsd use cshell so they are not POSIX systems

        fedora and redhat too ofc have moved faaaar away from POSIX
        and that's not a bad thing considering UNIX was made to be a temporary fix to OS problems
        just dont push systemd onto LSB like you did with rpm and il' still say only good things about redhat to other ppl
        i don't get your point, let me be specific:

        1.) i think this is easier systemctl enable or disable myapp.service is just that easy, in systemd there are no runtime levels
        2.) why many application? basically you need systemctl,loginctl[uneeded for user 99.99% of the time] and journalctl everything else is automatic and for apps
        3.) whole new syntax seem way excessive, see this:
        ---------------------------------------------------
        kdm.service
        [Unit]
        Description=K Display Manager
        After=systemd-user-sessions.service

        [Service]
        ExecStart=/usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon

        [Install]
        Alias=display-manager.service
        ----------------------------------------------------
        i mean is just that easy, you need nothing more than 7-12 lines unless you wanna do very fancy stuff like renice/resource control/per demand/timed start and even so 20 lines is the biggest i could manage to create.

        how could you call this init file harder than slackware/bsd?????, i suggest you actually try using systemd, it seems you have some missunderstandings [Arch/fedora have best implementations]

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
          i mean is just that easy, you need nothing more than 7-12 lines unless you wanna do very fancy stuff like renice/resource control/per demand/timed start and even so 20 lines is the biggest i could manage to create.

          how could you call this init file harder than slackware/bsd?????, i suggest you actually try using systemd, it seems you have some missunderstandings [Arch/fedora have best implementations]
          after writing that i actually spent an hour or so finding out more about systemd
          didnt get far,
          in fact this is its documentation and it says nothing about writing that files

          bdw, same in shell

          if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
          exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
          elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
          exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
          fi

          its 5 lines 'cuz kde


          never the less systemd is about faster boot, features and integration

          and i didnt come here to fight about what is "better"
          especially that i cant even find how systemd system works
          all i can find is what it does and how awsome it is

          then again, maybe it is awsome
          too many unclear things, il' wait ty

          with loves, gens

          Comment


          • Originally posted by gens View Post
            after writing that i actually spent an hour or so finding out more about systemd
            didnt get far,
            in fact this is its documentation and it says nothing about writing that files
            Read How Do I Convert A SysV Init Script Into A systemd Service File?, list of options inside systemd services and look at jrch2k8's example.
            Other examples:
            I presume you are looking to write a service file.

            bdw, same in shell

            if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
            exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
            elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
            exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
            fi

            its 5 lines 'cuz kde
            Your example lack comments and description about those purposes of lines. Are those codes a service file or an executable?
            This code may be obvious for you but not for other administrators.
            systemd lets you use shell inside service. Using jrch2k8's example
            Code:
            kdm.service
            [Unit]
            Description=K Display Manager
            After=systemd-user-sessions.service
            
            [Service]
            ExecStart=/bin/sh -c '
            if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
              exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
            elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
              exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
            fi'
            
            [Install]
            Alias=display-manager.service
            This is only for an example and you can tweak as you please.

            never the less systemd is about faster boot, features and integration
            Faster boot is a side effect of better handling the functions. =)
            Last edited by finalzone; 09-14-2013, 03:44 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by finalzone View Post
              Your example lack comments and description about those purposes of lines. Are those codes a service file or an executable?
              This code may be obvious for you but not for other administrators.
              systemd lets you use shell inside service. Using jrch2k8's example
              if a linux/unix administrator can't recognize a snippet of a shell script, then i suggest another job
              init runs the script associated with the requested run level, and thats all it does (dosent have to be a script rly, but i doubt many even know how exec() works)

              faster boot with systemd is a side effect of parallelization, something that a shell can do too

              thx for the links
              don't think i will read them all, since the first paragraph of the first link is pure FUD (read semi lies and bullshit)


              from my last post i investigated bit more about the topic
              it's not for me as it is needlessly complicated (in design, and implementation (the whole thing, not selected part)), and i like simple stuff
              i said i dont wanna fight
              do what you want, just dont force others to comply
              (more precisely, Lennart should stop calling others "archaic morons" (loosely quoted), im younger then him and dont agree on some parts)

              with regards, gens
              Last edited by gens; 09-15-2013, 05:20 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by gens View Post
                if a linux/unix administrator can't recognize a snippet of a shell script, then i suggest another job
                And you think ignoring what is most likely becoming the standard init-system on Linux is a good way to get your career going?

                Comment

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