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Wayland'ized GNOME Shell Gets A Binary

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  • #31
    I love how nowadays simply stating ordinary facts is considered "hating". I see this in a wide variety of discourses.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by johnc View Post
      I love how nowadays simply stating ordinary facts is considered "hating". I see this in a wide variety of discourses.
      opinions != facts

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      • #33
        Originally posted by sarmad View Post
        opinions != facts
        While that's true, stating that GNOME Shell is a turd is a fact, not an opinion.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Honton View Post
          They are just mad because KDE is dying now, and they envy Gnome. They can flame all they want, Gnome is moving ahead no matter what.
          You really are sounding like a broken record now - but please do continue, its so funny!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by johnc View Post
            While that's true, stating that GNOME Shell is a turd is a fact, not an opinion.
            You're an idiot. Before you spoke up it was just a fact. Now it's a well known fact.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
              If you find GNOME 3 uncomfortable, even after giving it a good shot for a couple days, you probably have an entrenched workflow that won't stand up to changing your environment any time soon.
              You do realize that your position is unfalsifiable! right?
              My opinion is that Gnome should've gone after the advanced market of users who create things. The people that OSX used to appeal to. Instead they've targeted an unrealistic group of consumers who are going to increasingly move their primary computing to android/iOS/fxos.
              Again, they needed to create realistic personas to begin with.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by liam View Post
                You do realize that your position is unfalsifiable! right?
                My opinion is that Gnome should've gone after the advanced market of users who create things. The people that OSX used to appeal to. Instead they've targeted an unrealistic group of consumers who are going to increasingly move their primary computing to android/iOS/fxos.
                Again, they needed to create realistic personas to begin with.
                I agree completely. Developers in the Linux world would be better off targeting the needs of the enthusiast users. The regular joes might come along afterwards if there's enough hype.

                But targeting the regular people who just browse and do facebook is chasing after a segment that would never even use Linux, while alienating your primary users. The people in that former group buy a computer and use it as-is. They're not going to buy a system and then install a Linux distro.

                Regular folks generally follow the enthusiasts, not the other way around. They're certainly not the trend-setters.

                In theory, making something technically superior to Windows really shouldn't be that hard.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by johnc View Post
                  But targeting the regular people who just browse and do facebook is chasing after a segment that would never even use Linux, while alienating your primary users. The people in that former group buy a computer and use it as-is. They're not going to buy a system and then install a Linux distro.
                  Regular users already use Linux through Android invalidating your point. In addition, based on my experience with the public ranging from young to old, all of them have no problem using Gnome Shell.

                  In theory, making something technically superior to Windows really shouldn't be that hard.
                  Done in practice. Problem is preinstallation and manipulation of consumer desktop market by proprietary companies like Microsoft by hook and crook.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                    In addition, based on my experience with the public ranging from young to old, all of them have no problem using Gnome Shell.
                    The only complaints I have heard from real people switching to G3 (i.e. not random people on the Internet) is "it doesn't look like it used to". None of them have switched to something else, and everyone seems happy about it.

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                    • #40
                      Are random people on the Internet not real people?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by johnc View Post
                        Are random people on the Internet not real people?
                        No
                        Joking aside, they are at least not a random sampling of the GNOME users. I am guessing that a lot of the "haters" are not even using GNOME. Because who the hell is so stupid to use a system they hate when they are not forced. And I am guessing that very few people are forced to use GNOME.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by kigurai View Post
                          No
                          Joking aside, they are at least not a random sampling of the GNOME users. I am guessing that a lot of the "haters" are not even using GNOME. Because who the hell is so stupid to use a system they hate when they are not forced. And I am guessing that very few people are forced to use GNOME.
                          To be fair, I would probably be considered as a GNOME hater by most people here, but I use GNOME almost every release to test the new features and stuff to see if it can draw me back in. Yet, I can honestly say that in my opinion, GNOME 3 is the worst desktop environment for productivity. Hell, even Ubuntu's Unity was way better before 12.04 (11.10 was my favorite version of Ubuntu ever) and 12.04+ only looses because of performance issues (it shouldn't take an entire second to open the freaking dash).

                          KDE I have no explicit love for either, mind you. It's cluttered and has too much inter-dependence on it's apps and libraries. E.g. if I want to install Konversation, I have to install half of KDE with it. Not to mention that ugly-ass default theme, ugh.
                          XFCE uses GTK2, and is suuuuuuper ugly by default. Openbox/Fluxbox are beyond too simple for my personal needs.
                          Cinnamon is what I wish GNOME 3 would have been.

                          At the moment I'm using XFCE with a heavily customized theme only because XFCE is the default on my current distro (Manjaro). But I distro-hop a lot so that may change soon.

                          NOTE HOWEVER that I am immensely proud of the GNOME team for pushing Wayland support so far so fast. It just goes to show that they have a great team of developers who can write great code.
                          They just have a horrible team of designers who push the developers to create interfaces that look like crap. GNOME 3 to me seems like it's saying, "Fuck the desktop, nobody uses THAT anymore! It's all MOBILE now!! Who needs notification icons that change color instead of sending you 100 notifications per second for messages in an IRC channel. We'll just HIDE ALL NOTIFICATION ICONS like the worthless shit it is."

                          Love ya GNOME devs
                          Hate ya GNOME designers

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Honton View Post
                            At least they are passionate about Gnome. They would rather spend their time discussing Gnome on Wayland rather than developing say KDE.

                            I guess that is a rational thing to do since KDE is dying and Gnome development on Wayland is faster than anything else right now. The haters will flame, but they will be trying it out on wayland anyway. Maybe in secrecy but we all know they are doing it.
                            I've noticed that you are very passionate about GNOME and very passionate about hating KDE. You are either an extremely good troll, who has studied with masters on how to get people pissed, or so passionate about GNOME that you view KDE as a rival somehow...

                            I'm questioning why there has to be one or the other, and why they can't just co-exist.

                            Also, KDE development is happening quite fast as well, it just doesn't happen to be on Micheal's news-worthy radar full of Wayland stuff. Instead, it's on completely re-vamping their internal structure to make it not suck, which is long overdue. After that happens, THEN comes the features, including complete Wayland support.

                            Do remember that KDE had the beginnings of Wayland support long before GNOME, and commend them for that.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                              Yet, I can honestly say that in my opinion, GNOME 3 is the worst desktop environment for productivity..
                              Could you list the reason for productivity issue?

                              Cinnamon is what I wish GNOME 3 would have been.
                              Have you tried the Classic Gnome interface introduced in Gnome 3.8? For you information, gnome-tweak-tool comes by default in 3.10.

                              GNOME 3 to me seems like it's saying, "Fuck the desktop, nobody uses THAT anymore! It's all MOBILE now!! Who needs notification icons that change color instead of sending you 100 notifications per second for messages in an IRC channel. We'll just HIDE ALL NOTIFICATION ICONS like the worthless shit it is."
                              Gnome Shell still retains the classic desktop paradigm under different appearance and removal of clutters. Notifications are stacked by applications. If you got many of them non stacked from the same applications, it is likely a bug. Note you can restore the classic notification through extensions or using the Classic Mode.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                                Could you list the reason for productivity issue?
                                Several things, actually. Switching windows without using the keyboard shortcut requires either pressing the super key or moving your mouse all the way to a corner. Or installing an extension.
                                As noted before, all notification icons for applications are hidden in a bar inside the... idk what to call it, so let's refer to it as the "Dash". So say I'm using Konversation, and I set the notification to tell me of channel activity without blowing up in my face with notifications and/or sounds, but by simply changing color. I have to press a button or move my mouse into a corner to check to see if it changed color instead of simply looking down/up/wherever. Or I could install an extension...
                                I also can't quickly open my favorite applications without, you guessed it, pressing the super key or moving my mouse to the corner. Unless I installed a dock or extension, but I don't like docks. I greatly enjoy the ability to put my applications directly on my main system bar. To be fair, I feel Windows 7 did this the best out of any OS/interface I've ever seen ever.

                                There are a few other things, but it's 4am so explaining them might get kinda hard to understand for you haha. Spelling and grammar go out the window after 10pm for me.

                                Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                                Have you tried the Classic Gnome interface introduced in Gnome 3.8? For you information, gnome-tweak-tool comes by default in 3.10.
                                I have. It looks exactly like GNOME 2. I don't want GNOME 2 haha, I want innovation. Plus, from my experience, it's not very customizable.
                                And I know GNOME-tweak-tool comes by default in 3.10 and that's awesome. There are a few settings in it that I wish would be moved to the main settings application, however.

                                Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                                Gnome Shell still retains the classic desktop paradigm under different appearance and removal of clutters. Notifications are stacked by applications. If you got many of them non stacked from the same applications, it is likely a bug. Note you can restore the classic notification through extensions or using the Classic Mode.
                                ...huh? GNOME 3 is completely geared for mobile/touch. It retains a "few" classic desktop paradigms, but it threw most of them out the window (including a lot that were very popular and useful) in favor of a "super simple interface".
                                I get that GNOME 3 is very extensible, and that's awesome, but you shouldn't HAVE to use an extension to view notification icons (not notifications themselves) on the GNOME bar.

                                Again, most of this is just my opinion based on my personal experiences with it :/

                                P.S. did they ever get any use out of that single-button application menu? I know from 3.0 > 3.6 the only option it had was "quit application".

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