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Reasons For Losing Motivation In Wayland

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  • Reasons For Losing Motivation In Wayland

    Phoronix: Reasons For Losing Motivation In Wayland

    While many are super excited about Wayland and the thought of X11 finally going away in the coming years, some who have been enthusiastic about Wayland/Weston are starting to lose interest. Here's the reasons by one Wayland enthusiast for losing motivation in the project...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTM4ODc

  • #2
    This is why you should have fully tested code whit everything developed in branches witch needs approval of both the build bot and a team member to merge back to master.

    On this plane Mir is superior over Wayland, to bad Wayland isn't developed this way.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Pajn View Post
      This is why you should have fully tested code whit everything developed in branches witch needs approval of both the build bot and a team member to merge back to master.

      On this plane Mir is superior over Wayland, to bad Wayland isn't developed this way.
      As noted in the article, the problem is with Cairo and Mesa. Mir also uses these, so Mir users would run into the same issues.

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      • #4
        This migration X -> Wayland is taking ages and I wonder if it will append before 2016.

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        • #5
          One of the downsides I see is that there appears to be as much developer interest in Wayland as there is in X.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chenxiaolong View Post
            As noted in the article, the problem is with Cairo and Mesa. Mir also uses these, so Mir users would run into the same issues.
            Well, there is XWayland too.

            But I agree Cairo and Mesa should also be fully unit tested.

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            • #7
              Personally I'm losing interest because it only works on the open drivers. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if they had PM functionality since the performance is already good enough in the open drivers, but without PM the open drivers are pretty much useless for everything except starting house fires.
              Last edited by chris200x9; 06-12-2013, 01:48 PM.

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              • #8
                well one thing i like to clear here, the fact you send a patch doesnt mean it has to be 100% of the time accepted and there are certain times when a patch could "fix an issue" but the real problem should be adressed because that patch will fix 1 thing but screwed another more relevant.

                mesa in this case is very picky since they don't tend to accept patches that don't solve the entire problem or is in wait list cuz someone is working in a better solution that will be integrated later on and will make this problem/patch irrelevant, so maybe this segfault xwayland bug is more transcedental than a minimal patch to hack it fast and require for optimal use that keith merge the dri3000 branch or example.

                in the case of cairo i can't talk since i don't report bugs in that project since long ago[have ages without issues with cairo] but i can say for mesa because since i got my SI card i have it in my bookmark bar reporting issues daily.

                beside remember wayland xwayland mesa Xorg drivers Xorg+dri3000 are being developed in parallallel, so is not like they are sitting in their asses watching the roof and Canonical's Mir just leech this changes since they don't contribute anything at all giving the sensation that Mir is getting done faster which is false. make OSS stack license incompatible with Mir from X to Kernel modules and lets see how fast can Mir rewrite all that code themselves

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by chris200x9 View Post
                  Personally I'm losing interest because it only works on the open drivers. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if they had PM functionality since the performance is already good enough in the open drivers, but without PM the open drivers are pretty much useless for everything except starting house fires.
                  High five. If it won't be using binary drivers (or binary drivers won't have necessary bits for wayland) wayland simply doesn't exist for me. I am using Nvidia hardware and I like to play games - closed drivers have all the features and quality I need and novueau is beyond terrible.

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                  • #10
                    The problem here seems to be more on 3rd party projects than on Wayland itself.
                    While it is a pitty that open-source software is constatly subject to this kind of problems, it is the reality, and we should try to further improve the interconections between projects that depend upon another, instead of just giving up.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chris200x9 View Post
                      Personally I'm losing interest because it only works on the open drivers. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if they had PM functionality since the performance is already good enough in the open drivers, but without PM the open drivers are pretty much useless for everything except starting house fires.
                      Intel drivers for linux have (always ?) been open-source for a good while. So no problems there.
                      AMD drivers are getting into very good shape and are backed by AMD itself (maybe not as much as it should be, but they keep on improving the closed source ones in the meanwhile).

                      Only leaves the nvidia drivers. That is a problem. But i don't see any reason for nvidia to support an unused display server just yet. If it became widely used, i have no doubts that nvidia would be quick to support it.

                      Bottom line, i don't really see a big problem in the driver department.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tehehe View Post
                        High five. If it won't be using binary drivers (or binary drivers won't have necessary bits for wayland) wayland simply doesn't exist for me. I am using Nvidia hardware and I like to play games - closed drivers have all the features and quality I need and novueau is beyond terrible.
                        I think Nvidia is taking a wait and see approach. nouveau driver runs some 3 games like Extreme Tux Racers fine, it will be a matter of time when nouveau gains more functionalities based on OpenGL 4.3 or OpenGL ES 3.0. Be glad the nv driver developed by Nvidia themselves is no more because if was a complete garbage.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by chris200x9 View Post
                          Personally I'm losing interest because it only works on the open drivers. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if they had PM functionality since the performance is already good enough in the open drivers, but without PM the open drivers are pretty much useless for everything except starting house fires.
                          Why you guys don't use opensource, but still post bullshit?..!
                          PM is *here*, its dynamic pm that is not here. Its not fatal.

                          Intel: PM - full
                          AMD: PM - manual state switch (high/low)
                          Nouvau: PM - prior to Fermi - full, Fermi and up - minimal(only low)

                          Also, follow this advice.
                          Without opensource drivers, there won't be any wayland, at all!

                          This is same old BS as with Logitech crap. If Logitech refuses to support Linux, its Logitech sucking, not Linux.
                          If Nvidia or Catalyst don't support Wayland, its them sucking, not Wayland. Also, Wayland is new technology, so chicken-egg. This problem never exists with opensource!

                          Damn, here for you

                          Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                          I think Nvidia is taking a wait and see approach. nouveau driver runs some 3 games like Extreme Tux Racers fine, it will be a matter of time when nouveau gains more functionalities based on OpenGL 4.3 or OpenGL ES 3.0. Be glad the nv driver developed by Nvidia themselves is no more because if was a complete garbage.
                          Nouveau runs anything that radeon or intel run, namely OpenGL3.3.
                          The problem with nouveau is lack of motivation behind its development, due to nvidia not opensourcing anything.
                          This is especially problematic with reclocking on Fermi and up, so the card is kept in lowest power mode, always.
                          Last edited by brosis; 06-12-2013, 02:34 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by brosis View Post
                            If Nvidia or Catalyst don't support Wayland, its them sucking, not Wayland.
                            But the end result is the same.

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                            • #15
                              PM is *here*, its dynamic pm that is not here. Its not fatal.
                              It certainly is fatal for a lot of laptop users, especially those who want to run a 3D desktop.

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