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Why Wayland & Weston Were Forked

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  • #76
    Originally posted by airlied View Post
    nice quoting,
    15:25 <soreau> man I really looked up to you
    15:26 <soreau> but just forget it, game over, you guys lose. You're appealing to the few techies out there while I'm targeting the human
    eye.
    15:27 <soreau> sorry to proclaim it so publically but please fix eglSwapInterval()

    and really I've never implemented anything in EGL, so I've no idea why I'd have any influence on it, patches welcome to mesa-dev@lists.freedesktop.org

    if you want I can post some of your earlier stuff,
    22:57 <soreau> you can't hide a troll too well in code
    22:57 <soreau> doesn't work too well
    22:57 <soreau> I'd much rather be the troll behind the code than some other monkey clown
    22:58 <soreau> not saying krh isn't a great developer because he is amazing, but he's a horrible project maintainer and he knows it
    22:58 <soreau> and I tried to give the guy respect and credit but he shat on me
    22:58 <soreau> so, whatever
    22:58 <soreau> I tried
    22:59 <soreau> I tried to serve the greater good
    22:59 <soreau> and I succeeded in this small thing
    22:59 <soreau> even if I have to be +q the rest of your days, it was worth it
    22:59 <soreau> it was all worth it for the greater good of the community

    And on and on.

    Dave.
    Dave, you and soreau are much the same.
    Painting a bad picture to the world of the open source community.
    If you did care about the public image, perhaps you both should refrain from posting such vitriol in a public space.
    In the meantime, everyone loses.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by intellivision View Post
      Dave, you and soreau are much the same.
      Painting a bad picture to the world of the open source community.
      If you did care about the public image, perhaps you both should refrain from posting such vitriol in a public space.
      In the meantime, everyone loses.
      Oh I missed the bit where I've forked a project because I couldn't handle being reviewed, then posted a long diatribe on a news site to garner attention, instead of just doing anything useful.

      At this point, soreau is trying his best to persuade the world he was being reasonable, if we don't reply, some people out there will go on thinking that he was, and in months/years we'll hear the story retold wrong. The thing is he's making shit up to justify thing, he's writing a version of history that nobody else agrees with.

      so I should let him? because that definitely won't do any long term damage.

      I understand you probably don't have much experience of open-source, so I'm happy to let your comment go, but this isn't tarnishing open sources image any more than the 50 times its happened before on 50 other projects. I don't see Linux development stopped because of it, maybe you can show me where its doing the damage with some citations.

      Dave.

      Comment


      • #78
        Linux IBM Commercial

        This was a fun one broadcasted on television some years back if my memory serves me correctly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOtKZA9ri7M

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by soreau View Post
          Freenode is useful and it is most certainly not something that should be discouraged. In fact, many of the greatest minds in Linux idle on the freenode network. It allows real people to communicate in real time, which some people find easier to use than traditional forum mediums we all use. This real time communication can incite emotions such as excitement and unfortunately, rage. Countless people have helped me through IRC. I have even helped someone diagnose and fix an automobile through IRC, that didn't know the first thing about automotive vehicles 'under the hood'. You can install an IRC lcient on any operating system, not just Linux. This is one of the many reasons I've been able to learn all I know today, and gain the knowledge that has brought me to the point I am at today. In fact, I have never been through any higher learning courses such as a university. I am 100% self taught, and I enjoy teaching others who want to learn, too. Thanks for your concern though.
          Yes, I do agree with what you said here. I'm often on Freenode myself, even if not connected to any channels. It definitely is a good resource, but in your case, as you said yourself, it incites rage. And rage is the last thing you want in this situation, because it makes you look bad and others don't want to have anything to do with you over it.

          You also have to realise that in this case, you need the cooperation of Wayland developers more than they need yours. Let's be fair, there are way more Wayland developers than there are Nothfield developers, and the former know the core protocol way better than the latter. If you just try to make changes without knowing the details, it will be much harder to remove them once they become no longer needed, not to mention that in some cases you don't even need to do anything in the first place, as the functionality is already there, you just have to know how to use it. And Wayland developers don't get anything from this at this point. Perhaps some ideas for Weston, but that's about it. Combine that with your tendency of being easily angered and, from their point of view, little heed that you put into their suggestions, and can you really blame them for not trying any more?

          That's not to say that Wayland developers have any right to be rude, either. You know well that he's easy to anger, so why deliberately provoke such a response?

          And once again, soreau, I am yet to hear your reasons for not using extensions. They sound like a win-win situation to me. Do you have any technical reasons to dispute that?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post

            That's not to say that Wayland developers have any right to be rude, either. You know well that he's easy to anger, so why deliberately provoke such a response?

            The question is why we should have to work with someone who is easy to anger, we don't know what'll set him off, and really nobody does except him. Like I get angry at the Internet a lot, I've had Linus Torvalds flame me to a crisp on public mailing lists, did I just go nuts and attack back, no I tried to calm my shit down and react with some forethought (okay maybe didn't succeed once or twice). His defaulting to angry asshole got tiring for everyone, I +q him on the irc channel a week or so ago to try and get him to take a break and back off, have a drink/smoke/lunch whatever, get away from the PC, it didn't work, he just ranted about it. So in the end krh kicked him out, job done.

            Dave.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by airlied View Post
              The question is why we should have to work with someone who is easy to anger, we don't know what'll set him off, and really nobody does except him. Like I get angry at the Internet a lot, I've had Linus Torvalds flame me to a crisp on public mailing lists, did I just go nuts and attack back, no I tried to calm my shit down and react with some forethought (okay maybe didn't succeed once or twice).

              Dave.
              Interestingly enough, I've sent my first and only email to Linus a few days ago before sitting down to write this paper asking for his help as well. I know that people often place him in a position where he has no other choice but to say some harsh things, too. The fact of the matter is, the Truth hurts.
              Last edited by soreau; 03-30-2013, 04:49 AM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                And once again, soreau, I am yet to hear your reasons for not using extensions. They sound like a win-win situation to me. Do you have any technical reasons to dispute that?
                Because what I need hasn't been written yet?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by soreau View Post
                  Interestingly enough, I've sent my first and only email to Linus a few days ago before sitting down to write this paper asking for his help as well. I know that people often place him in a position where he has no other choice but to say some harsh things, too. The fact of the matter is, the Truth hurts.

                  Why would you send Linus email? and why would you'd think he'd give a shit? really delusional now.

                  did you actually compare yourself to Linus there? wow add delusions of grandeur to the list.
                  Dave.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by airlied View Post
                    At this point, soreau is trying his best to persuade the world he was being reasonable, if we don't reply, some people out there will go on thinking that he was, and in months/years we'll hear the story retold wrong. The thing is he's making shit up to justify thing, he's writing a version of history that nobody else agrees with.

                    Dave.
                    I am writing history.. interesting concept indeed.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by soreau View Post
                      Yes I was wrong and shouldn't have lashed out so harshly. I did a apologize before I was banned from IRC but apparently it had gone too far in Kristian's eyes.
                      Yes, well... is that a surprise? You've not so much burned your bridges with the Wayland folks, as called down an airstrike and cluster-bombed the whole area. When you've insulted people so aggressively as that, it's kind of hard to get back together and work as if nothing had happened.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by airlied View Post
                        Why would you send Linus email? and why would you'd think he'd give a shit? really delusional now.

                        did you actually compare yourself to Linus there? wow add delusions of grandeur to the list.
                        Dave.
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                          Yes, well... is that a surprise? You've not so much burned your bridges with the Wayland folks, as called down an airstrike and cluster-bombed the whole area. When you've insulted people so aggressively as that, it's kind of hard to get back together and work as if nothing had happened.
                          I'd like to think of it more like building new bridges in addition to the others.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by wargames View Post
                            Well, the difference is if you work for a company, you do what you are told to do.
                            Nah, companies have their share of destructive politics too - it's just hidden from the world. When developers disagree over technical matters, it's rare for management to be able to make an informed decision of which side to go with. It's all about relationships - who's judgement they trust the most, who's better at explaining their side (and dismissing the others), etc. And if you're lucky, everyone will get in line once the decision is made, and not sulk and do a half-assed job of implementing the rival approach, just to prove they were right all along.

                            Of course, from the outside, what you mostly see is just projects delivered late, and with a high defect rate... maybe a little acrimony over Facebook from disgruntled staff who decide to leave...

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by airlied View Post
                              so I should let him? because that definitely won't do any long term damage.
                              To be honest, I think it'd do less damage than this relentless public feuding. Regardless of who might originally be at fault, you're doing as much as he is to keep tempers flaring and make sure the whole world sees how disfunctional things are getting. If you and the others stopped responding, the issue would drop off the radar quickly enough...

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by soreau View Post
                                I'd like to think of it more like building new bridges in addition to the others.
                                Call it what you like, but it doesn't make it reality. I'm not one of the Wayland devs, but I certainly couldn't blame them if they never wanted anything to do with you again. People have disagreements all the time, but once you've descended to the point of throwing personal insults around, it's real hard to come back to any kind of working relationship...

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