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Wayland/Weston Gets Forked As "GH-Next"

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  • Wayland/Weston Gets Forked As "GH-Next"

    Phoronix: Wayland/Weston Gets Forked As "GH-Next"

    Wayland and Weston along with other key branches like GTK+ and QtWayland have been forked by an independent developer under the "GH-Next" project name...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMzNDk

  • #2
    Sounds like "fork" is the wrong word... it's more like an experimental development branch, for playing with ideas that aren't of immediate priority for the main Wayland developers...

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    • #3
      I totally understand this. every time I submit a patch to GTK its the same thing you spend more time trying to get the patch accepted than you do coding/debugging even when the patch is just a bugfix. Its funny that a lot of people think FOSS software suffers from to few developers contributing, when in fact its due to poor project management and prioritys would be contributers just get frustrated and move on.

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      • #4
        MIR Effect

        Even though I'm not all that interested in MIR, if it takes Canonical doing MIR and thisn guy pushing new code to get the Wayland guys off their butts, then I'm all for it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by phoronix View Post
          Phoronix: Wayland/Weston Gets Forked As "GH-Next"

          Wayland and Weston along with other key branches like GTK+ and QtWayland have been forked by an independent developer under the "GH-Next" project name...

          http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMzNDk
          shitstorm coming.

          for the ubuntrolls this is not a fork per se is just a developer that feel the need to progress faster in some areas but having a hard time getting is ideas upstream and mostly for a good reason i believe.

          Remember Wayland being the most likely replacement for X11 in the near future and will be prolly present in Redhat ES 8+[nVidia/AMD real market interest] Wayland need to be carefully and slowly revised since unlike your regular no-so-important forks wayland is a very critical part of any Distro and any error or lack of future vision now can bring hell later when you try to fix it.

          so this developer is kinda working outside tree to test more deeply his ideas and maybe some other devs pick them as extensions later. this doesn't mean he is a crappy dev either since is very likely he posted working solution to common wayland issues but his patches were considered too hasty and no future proof enough to be included in the core protocol.

          After wayland is expected to last at least half his predecessor lasted, so the need to be extremely careful is very real and the perfect time is now that everyone is in the process of porting from X11 not in 2 years when a break in the API can bring worlds of pain

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          • #6
            "back in my days" nobody (read: the global average) cared about that stuff.
            we'd just fork the project and do whatever we want. if it had value, either we'd become the leading project, either the other party would contact back and be like "hey that's cool stuff, do you wanna be a core contributor and merge our projects back? lets use your/ours infra since your/ours is better" and we'd do just that.

            and.. that was that. no butt-hurt feelings, no stupid fan-base opinions, not ego-driven dev, no-for-fame-shit just people doing things.

            popularity sucks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
              shitstorm coming.
              Wait, wasn't Ubuntu doing exactly that?

              ---

              Personally I find this idea huge waste of effort.

              It would be a lot nicer, if the guy just did one single post describing all contributions he made, time and effort it took to submit and reason why there were not accepted.

              That would place the ironsights exactly on the problem.


              Instead ... effort has split, and we have just another graphics system,.. wonderful for confusing beginner contributors and distro developers.
              I am not criticizing him though, its still a decent decision.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by timothyja View Post
                I totally understand this. every time I submit a patch to GTK its the same thing you spend more time trying to get the patch accepted than you do coding/debugging even when the patch is just a bugfix. Its funny that a lot of people think FOSS software suffers from to few developers contributing, when in fact its due to poor project management and prioritys would be contributers just get frustrated and move on.
                Exactly, if you're new to a project and send a patch and it just gets accepted - you're really lucky. Most projects are stale and/or accept patches from known/past contributors, if you're not on that list you've got to fight an uphill battle first, sometimes it's worthless to even try. And I'm with Scott on this one - the Wayland devs are taking way too long to finish the freaking protocol.xml file, 5 years, minimize-maximize not decided yet, Wayland devs, seriously, get your shit together.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The reason for this -apart from SM wanting to experiment- is that Kristian doesn't want to turn weston in a dull featured desktop right???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by timothyja View Post
                    I totally understand this. every time I submit a patch to GTK its the same thing you spend more time trying to get the patch accepted than you do coding/debugging even when the patch is just a bugfix. Its funny that a lot of people think FOSS software suffers from to few developers contributing, when in fact its due to poor project management and prioritys would be contributers just get frustrated and move on.
                    While your point might be true in some cases, it's irrelevant to the situation at hand. This doesn't seem to be a developer getting angry at upstream developers not accepting his patches - this is someone who's happy cooperating with those devs, but wants to experiment with things that don't match their immediate priorities. No angst or aggression, just a guy creating a new development branch to play in...

                    (Edit: well, not much aggression, at least. Granted, there's a little annoyance at upstream being slow, but even so, there's no apparent hostility here)
                    Last edited by Delgarde; 03-24-2013, 06:58 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For who follow close the mailing list, this is not new, in any case see below a part of email exchange between Scott and Daniel:

                      Daniel:
                      Did that patchset get submitted to the list for review? If not, will it
                      be?

                      Scott:
                      No. These patches breaks many of the core goals of wayland/weston with DE-like features.
                      <krh> weston isn't going to be a full DE, starting a new DE is specifically a non-goal of wayland
                      <krh> and I've always said that fleshing out wl_shell will have to wait until we have at least one real DE to driver the work
                      <krh> otherwise it's all just going to be guesswork

                      So we're going to be doing a lot of guessing. As it turns out, the
                      best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas. So we're going
                      to try and guess what some of the better ideas might be.

                      Daniel:
                      I definitely don't see it that way, and without being able to speak for
                      Kristian, I daresay he doesn't either. There's a big gap between not
                      wanting to start a competitor to GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, XFCE, LXDE and
                      the myriad other environments, and adding titlebar buttons to XWayland. The
                      example clients shipped with Weston have titlebar buttons, so I think it's
                      fairly safe to say that a) extending the same support to X11 clients is a
                      useful goal, and b) including titlebar buttons is clearly not a non-goal for
                      Weston.

                      Cheers,
                      Daniel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by valeriodean View Post
                        For who follow close the mailing list, this is not new, in any case see below a part of email exchange between Scott and Daniel:
                        Yes, on reading the thread in more detail, it's actually harder to see what's going on. In the later posts, Scott does seem more unhappy with the core Wayland developers than I'd first thought - on the other hand, it seems he's not even giving them a chance to review and accept his patches. It's hard to tell if this is team politics, or just a misunderstanding over whether Scott's patches are useful to the core code.

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                        • #13
                          I totally understand Mir now


                          Maybe he could contribute to ubuntu.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                            While your point might be true in some cases, it's irrelevant to the situation at hand. This doesn't seem to be a developer getting angry at upstream developers not accepting his patches - this is someone who's happy cooperating with those devs, but wants to experiment with things that don't match their immediate priorities. No angst or aggression, just a guy creating a new development branch to play in...

                            (Edit: well, not much aggression, at least. Granted, there's a little annoyance at upstream being slow, but even so, there's no apparent hostility here)
                            Are you sure you read the whole article? My post was highly relevant I was basically reaffirming his point.

                            "I myself am not going to waste my time and effort as I have done for the past several months, trying to get even the simplest things pushed upstream. So even if these patches were acceptable, I don't have plans to put forth a large amount of effort to see them upstream. If you want the code, great. It's FOSS, grab it. The general point here is, I don't really plan on going to be making special time to bug upstream anymore because my efforts so far have been shunned, shot down, trolled and ultimately, less-than-appreciated. It's been a year, now I've had enough of the nonsense."

                            What exactly qualifies as hostility for you? This does not seem like someone happy cooperating with upstream devs as you claim, and its not a new development branch to play in, branches are usually intended to be merged back with master. He clearly states he never intends to do so or to submit anything back to master for that matter, this is a fork.
                            As I said is my previous post, in my opinion poor management of potential contributors is hurting FOSS development more than the lack of devs.
                            Last edited by timothyja; 03-24-2013, 09:46 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pretty interesting, so it seems to be true what Ubuntu developers feared, wayland develoeprs not accepting patches or the ideas they had. So in the end the best decision was to start Mir.

                              Only people that is really close to all of this can really know what is happening behind the scenes...

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