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Wayland Still Working On Minimizing, Maximizing

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  • Wayland Still Working On Minimizing, Maximizing

    Phoronix: Wayland Still Working On Minimizing, Maximizing

    Support for minimize and maximize requests is still being worked on the for the Wayland protocol. Yes, this is to allow windows to be minimized or maximized within the Wayland environment...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMyMjQ

  • #2
    Anyone have insight to why special functionality is needed? What is stopping the compositor from managing individual window size, since it already controls the chrome, such that if you size a window to 0x0 it is minimized, and the compositor can implement maximize and fullscreen to just give the application the desktop-chromed max window size and a borderless full screen window?

    It just seems like it is a sound abstraction to consider a window that percieves its draw area as 0x0 pixels as being hidden or otherwise minimized, and I don't see many applications that need to care how big its window is relative to the desktop (it just needs to be alerted to size changes to reorient contents).

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    • #3
      Shade

      Maybe next they should do a "shade" feature (or what its called), where only the titlebar shows, the application collapses so only the titlebar shows.
      I've seen some window managers have that feature.

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      • #4
        I'm thrilled.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by zanny View Post
          Anyone have insight to why special functionality is needed? What is stopping the compositor from managing individual window size, since it already controls the chrome, such that if you size a window to 0x0 it is minimized, and the compositor can implement maximize and fullscreen to just give the application the desktop-chromed max window size and a borderless full screen window?

          It just seems like it is a sound abstraction to consider a window that percieves its draw area as 0x0 pixels as being hidden or otherwise minimized, and I don't see many applications that need to care how big its window is relative to the desktop (it just needs to be alerted to size changes to reorient contents).
          I don't know details, but caching and resource control comes to mind. If you minimize already existing window, you are giving composer a hnt that you might maximize it sometime later.

          If you just resize it, your are practically throwing away everything that might be already drawn within. Also, you are straining infrastructure with dealocation of resources only to be allocated probably short time later.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brane215 View Post
            I don't know details, but caching and resource control comes to mind. If you minimize already existing window, you are giving composer a hnt that you might maximize it sometime later.

            If you just resize it, your are practically throwing away everything that might be already drawn within. Also, you are straining infrastructure with dealocation of resources only to be allocated probably short time later.
            Well I don't know but the description to me sounds like this design might finally fix the issue of not having the ability to have a live preview of a minimized window that shows up in other display servers.

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            • #7
              Dafuk

              Weston supports maximizing and returning to its pre-maximized state, they're just working out how to do it in the cleanest fashion. Please stop jumping to absurd conclusions Michael, or you could just ask me when you're unsure about some details.

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              • #8
                The patches are supporting minimize and what ever it's called when the window comes out of the task manager (minimize?).

                Applications can already maximize and restore, and they already could for a long time.

                The reason why this functionality has to be added for minimize, is because in order to know how to create the entry in the 'task bar' of which it can minimize to, the application needs a way to tell the shell what the title and icon is, and everything.

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                • #9
                  I thought this article was about a Wayland feature, and not about a moral lesson for Canonical. Rly needed to mention Mir here? Why not say...'X has been supporting this for years, despite the primitive implementation..."?

                  Anyway I don't know why I still hope for quality articles in this blog, it isn't what it used to be, too much personal feelings and too little objectivity.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by arioch View Post
                    Anyway I don't know why I still hope for quality articles in this blog, it isn't what it used to be, too much personal feelings and too little objectivity.
                    Phoronix isn't exactly known for quality, but well, at least

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                    • #11
                      Now, I do not wish for this to become another thread just like all of the others, but I do find it a tad rich that people are complaining about Micheal's journalism here now just because he is being a little gruff about Canonical, when many of you all failed to rise or complain when he trash-talked the new Anaconda, LGP or whatever else he has failed to take a shine to. Michael is just being Michael, and if you could put up with it then, you can put up with it now.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                        Now, I do not wish for this to become another thread just like all of the others, but I do find it a tad rich that people are complaining about Micheal's journalism here now just because he is being a little gruff about Canonical, when many of you all failed to rise or complain when he trash-talked the new Anaconda, LGP or whatever else he has failed to take a shine to. Michael is just being Michael, and if you could put up with it then, you can put up with it now.
                        How many negative articles were posted about Anaconda? Or on LGP? Are you serious? Here are the Mir articles for the last week:

                        KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem
                        Canonical Loses Work From Top Compiz Contributor
                        Shuttleworth On Mir: "A Fantastic Piece of Engineering"
                        Mark Shuttleworth Goes Blogging On Ubuntu Defense
                        Ubuntu 13.04 Won't Get X.Org Server 1.14 [because of mir!]
                        Videos Of Unity Running On Mir Via X Server
                        Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa
                        A Note To Canonical: "Don't Piss On Wayland"
                        Building & Running The Ubuntu Mir Display Server
                        The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server
                        Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir
                        Ubuntu Announces Mir, A X.Org/Wayland Replacement

                        YHBT. Heck, IHBT. In any case... HAND!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by marrusl View Post
                          How many negative articles were posted about Anaconda? Or on LGP? Are you serious? Here are the Mir articles for the last week:

                          KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem
                          Canonical Loses Work From Top Compiz Contributor
                          Shuttleworth On Mir: "A Fantastic Piece of Engineering"
                          Mark Shuttleworth Goes Blogging On Ubuntu Defense
                          Ubuntu 13.04 Won't Get X.Org Server 1.14 [because of mir!]
                          Videos Of Unity Running On Mir Via X Server
                          Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa
                          A Note To Canonical: "Don't Piss On Wayland"
                          Building & Running The Ubuntu Mir Display Server
                          The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server
                          Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir
                          Ubuntu Announces Mir, A X.Org/Wayland Replacement

                          YHBT. Heck, IHBT. In any case... HAND!
                          Hi you must be new here, otherwise you would know exactly what Hamish is talking about. If you follow Phoronix on a regular basis at all you'd know that he pretty much bashes on everything except for technologies he happens to be favoring at the moment, You want to see him really bashing find an article on the Radeon Southern Islands support...

                          However of your list let's mark out how many are interpretations/reposts of people blogs and thus are essentially newsworthy in that regard:
                          KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem
                          Canonical Loses Work From Top Compiz Contributor
                          Shuttleworth On Mir: "A Fantastic Piece of Engineering"
                          Mark Shuttleworth Goes Blogging On Ubuntu Defense
                          A Note To Canonical: "Don't Piss On Wayland"
                          Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir
                          and how many of these are announcement / initial testing of Mir and are essentially all on Larabel:
                          Videos Of Unity Running On Mir Via X Server
                          Building & Running The Ubuntu Mir Display Server
                          Ubuntu Announces Mir, A X.Org/Wayland Replacement
                          The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server
                          and what's left? well an announcement on Xorg.. The only reason the number of posts here is slightly higher than average in terms of Mir is essentially due to the fact that Larabel summarizes blog posts by influential people. That they're negative reflects the overall negative reaction towards canonical by the related bloggers, and it's not like they're without reason, Canonical played foul and the larger community has reacted against them as a result.

                          Do note that Larabel has been accused of favouring Ubuntu before in the past due to his almost exclusive use for it for benchmarking. What I would like to know is where are all of these canonical (not even fanboys really for ubuntu but canonical) fanboys coming from? Is Shuttleworth secretly setting up raids on Phoronix with his other skunkworks projects?

                          Edit: and actually reviewing the related all on larabel posts I'd see he really wasn't being that negative at all on those
                          Last edited by Luke_Wolf; 03-09-2013, 03:06 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Sound like flawed proposal.

                            Why use "minimize" ??

                            Why not "your input / focus / drawing surface" changed?

                            And why not separate "your drawing surface is invisible for now" ? (With additional "give us one frame preatty please"?)

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                            • #15
                              It would be nice to have more than just minimize and maximize.
                              Support for custom things so Wayland does not dictate in any way what kinds of window changes there are. Makes it possible to not have to change protocols when doing other things:
                              http://www.4t-niagara.com/tray.html

                              Personally I don't like the idea of minimize might see something on taskbar.
                              Would like a minimize-taskbar and minimize-tray action for that.

                              Don't consider Wayland in a post 1.0 state when this is not done yet.
                              I understand it takes a long time to design it well but there should be no shame in not doing a 1.0 release yet.

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