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Wayland Still Working On Minimizing, Maximizing

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  • #16
    Originally posted by przemoli View Post
    Sound like flawed proposal.

    Why use "minimize" ??

    Why not "your input / focus / drawing surface" changed?

    And why not separate "your drawing surface is invisible for now" ? (With additional "give us one frame preatty please"?)
    Something like this. In a generic world, you would only ever tell the app what size the draw surface is, and that is it - an app should just infer 0x0 as being hidden, and just needs metrics to ask "am I minimized?", "am I as big as I can get?" "am I as big as the entire screen?" but the app would ask those questions, it wouldn't be told them, because that isn't inherently necessary information.

    I imagine it would be the responsibility of a toolkit to capture the state of an app prior to a minimize and store it as a preview. It shouldn't be an applications responsibility to generate those snapshot images.

    Though hidden seems like a reasonable compromise. Maybe even "max size". I wonder, is Wayland going to implement awful separate fullscreen app context behavior like X, where fullscreen apps basically crap all over the window system, and have "fullscreen" just be a borderless window, or keep that awful mechanism? A smart DE should just suppress updates if the entire display is captured by an app in chromeless mode.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
      Hahaha the Wayland that is done, that is version 1.0, released, the greatest thing ever so good it's not in any distro since nobody deserves them, couldn't minimize? Sure, Wayland is complete...riiight...
      Who said Wayland is complete? (Beside you.)

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      • #18
        Shouldn't this be handled completely by the window manager?

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        • #19
          like Sinatra, canonical might sing: "...and do it my way."

          This shows how long it takes to design and implement well a full-featured modern display server, with Wayland having been developed for about five years now while Canonical hopes Mir will be ready by later in the year and ready for all form-factors by next April.
          Well, they might do it the canonical way. Take all the hard work from others - eg take the Wayland solution of how this minimize thing has been solved - , put some ubuntu sauce on it, so it can't be used anywhere else and call it their own, superior Mir solution.

          Just a thought.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rgloor View Post
            Well, they might do it the canonical way. Take all the hard work from others - eg take the Wayland solution of how this minimize thing has been solved - , put some ubuntu sauce on it, so it can't be used anywhere else and call it their own, superior Mir solution.

            Just a thought.
            less coolness pls
            first, i supposed that leveraging the hard work from others (so that you can "stand on the shoulders of giants") was the whole point of the GPL - now becomes a crime?
            second, AFAIK (correct me if im wrong) Wayland puts much window management awareness onto clients, and involves communication between clients, the WM and the compositor) involving - whereas if i understand it correctly, Mir wants to achieve single process operation and as transparent window management as possible - that sais diametrically opposite approaches to me

            thus, if wayland code is looked at (difficult, going tdd implies writing one testcase > one code line > one testcase > one code line, thus only ad hoc code ends up in place) that would be for the basics (like the redraw loop) or as a reference how not to do things

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            • #21
              Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
              Hahaha the Wayland that is done, that is version 1.0, released, the greatest thing ever so good it's not in any distro since nobody deserves them, couldn't minimize? Sure, Wayland is complete...riiight...
              The 1.0 release was to mark that the Wayland protocol and API was declared rather stable so that developers could start working on their software and not expect it to break every new Wayland release.

              As I understand, Wayland has come pretty far.
              What remains is improvements to the Wayland backend for GTK and Qt, and also XWayland.

              GTK's Wayland backend is probably getting in pretty good shape for GTK 3.8.
              XWayland is a bit unstable and needs work.

              Many applications needs to be ported from GTK2 to GTK3 and from Qt4 to Qt5.
              Many applications needs to stop using X11 calls and not rely on Xlib.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                The 1.0 release was to mark that the Wayland protocol and API was declared rather stable so that developers could start working on their software and not expect it to break every new Wayland release.

                As I understand, Wayland has come pretty far.
                What remains is improvements to the Wayland backend for GTK and Qt, and also XWayland.

                GTK's Wayland backend is probably getting in pretty good shape for GTK 3.8.
                XWayland is a bit unstable and needs work.

                Many applications needs to be ported from GTK2 to GTK3 and from Qt4 to Qt5.
                Many applications needs to stop using X11 calls and not rely on Xlib.
                Thank you for the summary. Now look at Mir's to do list, and say with a straight face that Wayland is not near enough to finished yet.

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                • #23
                  No, I think it goes something like this...

                  Mir still has to do a lot that is already done in Wayland, in addition to getting support added to toolkits (which is mostly done for Wayland), waiting for those apps to be ported to (or compiled with) versions of those toolkits which support Mir, and making apps less dependant on X.org (which, thanks to Wayland, is already in progress).

                  Now look at Mir's todo list and say with a straight face that Mir has less to do than Wayland before it's finished.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                    The 1.0 release was to mark that the Wayland protocol and API was declared rather stable so that developers could start working on their software and not expect it to break every new Wayland release.

                    As I understand, Wayland has come pretty far.
                    What remains is improvements to the Wayland backend for GTK and Qt, and also XWayland.

                    GTK's Wayland backend is probably getting in pretty good shape for GTK 3.8.
                    XWayland is a bit unstable and needs work.

                    Many applications needs to be ported from GTK2 to GTK3 and from Qt4 to Qt5.
                    Many applications needs to stop using X11 calls and not rely on Xlib.
                    XWayland works pretty well for me. The radeon driver needs to fix a bug that crashes it when dragging a tab to a new position in Chrome, otherwise XWayland works fine.

                    Here's a screenshot of a bunch of XWayland apps running in Weston: http://i.imgur.com/lvUbYIb.png

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                      Thank you for the summary. Now look at Mir's to do list, and say with a straight face that Wayland is not near enough to finished yet.
                      Without Wayland, Mir wouldn't even be possible.
                      Wayland developers has for years laid down the foundation that made Mir possible.

                      DRM, KMS, pluggable backends, runtime configurable backends, device drivers, etc.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                        Without Wayland, Mir wouldn't even be possible.
                        Wayland developers has for years laid down the foundation that made Mir possible.

                        DRM, KMS, pluggable backends, runtime configurable backends, device drivers, etc.
                        Yeah, I was actually agreeing with you. I do not know, maybe the smiley muddled it...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                          Yeah, I was actually agreeing with you. I do not know, maybe the smiley muddled it...
                          I understood that you were agreeing as well (smiley or no smiley), not sure how other people misinterpreted.

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                          • #28
                            Seriously?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
                              Seriously?
                              Seriously.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
                                Seriously?
                                Seriously, Seriously?

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