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Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir

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  • #46
    Originally posted by numasan View Post
    Huh? What is happening to Ubuntu? Personally lost interest in it years ago, but still glad it promotes Linux (on the desktop), but now? This is the end, in a few years it'll be the bastard child of Linux, and then into oblivion like all the rest of once popular desktop distros... Google can pull stuff like this off with Android, because they are freaking Google, but Mr. Shuttleworth must be delusional if he thinks Canonical can do the same. Until then all they do is damage the ecosystem. Shame...
    I wonder how did you get into such strange conclusions? Ubuntu is the most popular distribution and Ubuntu having X replacement that is supported by proprietary drivers will become even more popular. If something will end it's gnome shell and fedora/red hat leadership in dictating Linux future. And this is good, because they have no clue about desktops.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by johnc View Post
      True. If Ubuntu goes completely down the toilet I'll probably end up going back to Windows or maybe moving over to OS X. There really is no compelling Linux desktop alternative for me at this time.
      There's no way it will go down. They have Valve behind them and it seems MIR will be supported by proprietary drivers which isn't so sure about Wayland. I didn't like Ubuntu to use SurfaceFlinger in cost of Wayland, but I MIR has my full support.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
        For the anti-BSD trolls:
        This is the first display server I know of to be licensed as (L)GPL3. I doubt it will be popular anywhere outside Linux (there, did I irritate anyone yet?) and Hurd.


        ...Meanwhile, I'm sticking with X11, and sysvinit (well, and bb init!).
        Nobody cares about bsd crap here. There are no anti-bsd trolls here, but only bsd trolls. Linux users have no reasons to troll about bsd which is meaningless to us.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by zxy_thf View Post
          Nothing to surprise.
          I've found Canonical is just an Apple-wannabe for a while.

          But it will never become another Apple because it has never invested as many human resources as Apple had.
          To get a better UI, Apple replaced X server many years ago. But what about Canonical? It just adopted compiz to attract users with the fancy but useless graphics.
          And even with X Ubuntu is way faster than OS X. Furthermore, Ubuntu is using Linux kernel rather some crap and it seems you're an only one who doesn't see Apple's OS X will be dead in the near future.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by asdx
            RAOF is a fucking idiot.
            No, he's not.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by mark45 View Post
              Even if it's true (they're more mature) - what is easier, to write your own display server or join forces with the rest of the players behind Wayland and get those companies to improve their drivers? Me thinks the latter is the clearly better option.
              in my experience the first is more often the esier one. forgot the many complaints about slow reaction from the devs, not incorporating upstream suggestions? we all know how slow and stubborn such projects can react.

              but i do not know what is in this particular case, though. my statement is meant in general, not saying that it is actually the case with the wayland project. joining forces only works if you can really join. but in reality not all are allowed to really join.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by grotgrot View Post
                I was developing an Apache module, along with other software. It wouldn't work with no apparent explanation as to why. Eventually I'd find a clue, address it and try again. This would happen several times. I didn't want to disable selinux since then everyone I gave the module to would also have to do so, which is clearly the wrong thing. The issue wasn't the existence of selinux, but rather that diagnosing something you wanted to happen and didn't was extremely tedious.
                You may have found http://linux.die.net/man/8/httpd_selinux useful. That's what I use for a reference when I'm bashing something to work on my web server. SELinux really *is* a good thing to have on server boxes, once you figure out how to set things up.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                  And gnome developers don't suffer from the NIH syndrome? Unity for example, was available before gnome shell.
                  Rubbish. Not even close.

                  "Unity debuted in the netbook edition of Ubuntu 10.10." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_...environment%29

                  * Mon Aug 10 2009 Owen Taylor <otaylor@redhat.com> - 2.27.0-1
                  - Initial version

                  - gnome-shell changelog.

                  GNOME 3.0's release was after Unity's, but Shell was widely known about and available as a preview long before Unity. Several distros had shell packages long before GNOME 3.0 came out.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by AdamW View Post
                    SELinux really *is* a good thing to have on server boxes, once you figure out how to set things up.
                    I agree which is why I didn't disable it. I was doing this work quite a few years ago. I think back then nothing was logged if there was an SElinux violation which is what made life so much harder. Similar things happen on Ubuntu today - you can't strace a random process, but at least you get an immediate message telling you what happened and how to fix it. And you get apparmor on Ubuntu, and I wish they had picked selinux instead. (Yet another reason to move.)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by a user View Post
                      in my experience the first is more often the esier one. forgot the many complaints about slow reaction from the devs, not incorporating upstream suggestions? we all know how slow and stubborn such projects can react.

                      but i do not know what is in this particular case, though. my statement is meant in general, not saying that it is actually the case with the wayland project. joining forces only works if you can really join. but in reality not all are allowed to really join.
                      In this case they didn't even try to contribute to or influence the wayland project. If they had and failed I would have understood why they wanted to roll their own display server.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by daniels View Post
                        No, he's not.

                        From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

                        Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                          From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

                          Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?
                          Maybe he had no say in the decision and it is only logical to try to defend your employers decisions.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                            And gnome developers don't suffer from the NIH syndrome? Unity for example, was available before gnome shell.
                            It is Canonical suffering from NCLAH. Unity was a clever way to CLA the desktop UI. At tomorrows Ubuntu it is easier to point out the few component NOT suffering from CLA than the other way around. Adding an android kernel/driver scheme and you have your self a complete disaster.

                            It is quite scary.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                              C'mon admit it! The real men entered the room and the Wayland kids got scattered. Wayland kept the news headline for so many years and hasn't come up with anything usable for years. It might as well be called vaporware. Now when a real company with real money attacks the issue, instead of saying thank you, you scold them. Working with wayland? Why? They can't make up their minds and can't come up with shit. They haven't been for years. Tell me which one of you uses wayland huh? Nobody? Could it be that it doesn't work and all their beautiful design is shit?

                              This is how linux has always been. Mediocre until a company that works for profit takes it and transforms it into something usable for the masses. Look at android and Ubuntu. Wayland never had a chance.
                              Trolling about things you dont understand as per usual BO$$. So suddenly the companies that employee the wayland devs dont make a profit someone should tell Intels share holders that the wise and all knowing BO$$ says Intel no longer work for a profit. From what I understand Wayland is currently much more complete than Mir so your whole argument makes no sense what so ever.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                                C'mon admit it! The real men entered the room and the Wayland kids got scattered. Wayland kept the news headline for so many years and hasn't come up with anything usable for years. It might as well be called vaporware. Now when a real company with real money attacks the issue, instead of saying thank you, you scold them. Working with wayland? Why? They can't make up their minds and can't come up with shit. They haven't been for years. Tell me which one of you uses wayland huh? Nobody? Could it be that it doesn't work and all their beautiful design is shit?

                                This is how linux has always been. Mediocre until a company that works for profit takes it and transforms it into something usable for the masses. Look at android and Ubuntu. Wayland never had a chance.
                                You know what they say: it's better to stay quiet and be thought an idiot, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Maybe you should follow that advice...

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