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Compiz Will Not Be Ported To Wayland

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SolidSteel144 View Post
    I guess they could switch to Mutter?
    It's in a much better state than it was 2 years ago.
    Yeah, in hindsight, moving away from Mutter was a bad call for Ubuntu. True, Mutter wasn't performing well at the time, but it wasn't long before the Gnome devs addressed most of those problems.

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    • #17
      This is Linux's #1 problem above all others

      If there is one problem that has set Linux progress back - be it on the server or the desktop, is the OS fragmentation. This fragmentation is fueled by the ginormous egos and hubris of developers who actually think they "invent" something new by doing it "their" way instead of coming together in groups of 6-12 developers at most for any given project and agreeing, by vote if necessary, on how to proceed with any project that is needed and fills a need.

      I'm not proposing a solution as I have none, short of asking developers to unite - a utopian dream at best..... But this has bugged me more than anything else about Linux, the reinventing the wheel, over and over and over, and actually believing and drinking one's own Kool-Aid....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MartinN View Post
        If there is one problem that has set Linux progress back - be it on the server or the desktop, is the OS fragmentation. This fragmentation is fueled by the ginormous egos and hubris of developers who actually think they "invent" something new by doing it "their" way instead of coming together in groups of 6-12 developers at most for any given project and agreeing, by vote if necessary, on how to proceed with any project that is needed and fills a need.

        I'm not proposing a solution as I have none, short of asking developers to unite - a utopian dream at best..... But this has bugged me more than anything else about Linux, the reinventing the wheel, over and over and over, and actually believing and drinking one's own Kool-Aid....
        I think the worst part is we reinvent the wheel (compositors, audio engines, text editors, terminals, etc) without making one sony vegas quality non-linear video editor, not keeping GIMP up to snuff against photoshop, not making sure Blender is better than Maya, and not keeping any of the dozens of FOSS game engines up to snuff against competitors like Unreal 3.

        Too much effort is put into repeating the same work on the same things that, albeit, are essential to the desktop experience, but there is a significant lack of end-user products that can compete and draw new recruits to Linux space instead of everyone just sitting on Windows due to software.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by zanny View Post
          So if Compiz is out on account of fragmentation, that just leaves KWin, Mutter, Metacity, Xfwm, Openbox, Enlightenment, and a variety of much smaller projects. And those are just the tiling WMs!

          I definite get the perspective of the fragmentation being bad. Having the QT / GTK split between KWin and Mutter seems inevitable, but I hope that the non-platform centric WMs can converge around Openbox, it seems to have the most traction.
          Before posting such dumb comments, read the actual blog post first: He's not talking about X11 window managers. He talks about Wayland which currently has only one and that's Weston.

          Originally posted by uid313 View Post
          Also, without Compiz, how is Unity supposed to run on Wayland?
          Also for you: Read the blog post before asking stupid questions. But I am a nice person and answer that anyway: By porting Unity to Weston and if all those Phoronix stories about Ubuntu and Wayland are any indication, that's exactly what Canonical is doing.

          Originally posted by SolidSteel144 View Post
          I guess they could switch to Mutter?
          Why would they switch to Mutter? Mutter does not even work under Wayland. Currently only Weston does!

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          • #20
            I believe there are several compositors that are work in progress. Even very experimental stuff like that one that was even featured on phoronix a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs

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            • #21
              Originally posted by zanny View Post
              I think the worst part is we reinvent the wheel (compositors, audio engines, text editors, terminals, etc) without making one sony vegas quality non-linear video editor, not keeping GIMP up to snuff against photoshop, not making sure Blender is better than Maya, and not keeping any of the dozens of FOSS game engines up to snuff against competitors like Unreal 3.

              Too much effort is put into repeating the same work on the same things that, albeit, are essential to the desktop experience, but there is a significant lack of end-user products that can compete and draw new recruits to Linux space instead of everyone just sitting on Windows due to software.
              thank you for getting and belaboring my point... It's like Linux people are afflicted with some disease ... or maybe just afflicted with a lack of strong leadership. But when there's nothing to lose and everything's "free", why would anyone want to give up being right about their pet store implementation being 'the right/best' one....

              God help the Linux movement!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                thank you for getting and belaboring my point... It's like Linux people are afflicted with some disease ... or maybe just afflicted with a lack of strong leadership.
                Well, duh... of course there's no strong leadership - there's no organisation for them to lead. There's no such thing as Linux people, no great collective of developers. Just a bunch of individuals doing whatever interest them...

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                • #23
                  It's kinda the same on Windows also. There are 400 million different applications that all do the same thing.

                  Granted there is usually one that is a cut above the rest... but a lot of times those are coming from a corporation.

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                  • #24
                    the problem is that windows is like a petri dish for developers, while Linux distros are on of the worse platforms to develop for. there are no IDEs on par with Visual Studio or XCode and the base OS is fragmented between different glibc, gcc, kernel and x.org versions. the result is that it is more work to publish an app for Linux, than for Windows or OS X.

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                    • #25
                      True, but the best solution there is to target a specific distro (and version). There really is nothing wrong with doing that, although many people will squeal.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by garegin View Post
                        the problem is that windows is like a petri dish for developers, while Linux distros are on of the worse platforms to develop for. there are no IDEs on par with Visual Studio or XCode and the base OS is fragmented between different glibc, gcc, kernel and x.org versions. the result is that it is more work to publish an app for Linux, than for Windows or OS X.
                        I actually don't like Visual Studio at all; (never used XCode) I would take QtCreator any day. You really don't need to worry much about glibc, gcc, kernel, or x.org versions for 99% of software, as 99% of software doesn't use x calls, kernel calls (especially new ones) things that are specefic to a gcc version (are there such things?) and glibc is just a standard c library. I find that publishing for linux is dead simple.

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                        • #27
                          I find that publishing for linux is dead simple.
                          keep thinking that.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by garegin View Post
                            keep thinking that.
                            It is that simple.

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                            • #29
                              I do have to wonder how many people who are complaining about the "Fragmentation" for development are actually developers... as I'm hearing a lot of lack of clue from that side here...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ShadowBane View Post
                                I actually don't like Visual Studio at all; (never used XCode) I would take QtCreator any day. You really don't need to worry much about glibc, gcc, kernel, or x.org versions for 99% of software, as 99% of software doesn't use x calls, kernel calls (especially new ones) things that are specefic to a gcc version (are there such things?) and glibc is just a standard c library. I find that publishing for linux is dead simple.
                                I want to reaffirm this, I much prefer QTCreator / MonoDevelop to VisualStudio / Xcode. Those latter two are slow as shit bloated messes that always crash when I use em.

                                And Linux as a platform is much nicer to develop for too because you can get almost all the info you need in the filesystem. In Windows you are stuck using WIN32_FUCKYOU_CAPSLOCKFUNC55(STUFF, STUFF, WHAT, MORE USELESS STUFF, WELCOME TO 1985), or WinRT if you really are masochistic.

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