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Wayland 1.0 Officially Released

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  • #16
    Hooray and props to kristian and all the other devs.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by garegin View Post
      honestly i don't care. the gui on linux is so messed up, it would be like painting a broken car. wayland is trying to solve a problem that doesn't need solving. it is trying to make desktop linux to function properly. this is pointless because the average consumer needs office, itunes, photoshop, blueray, netflix. they are gonna start using linux because stallman lectures them about their freedom. on the server side, you don't even need graphical acceleration. you might as well be running a vesa driver. power users shy from linux too- lacks on apps, sucky multi-monitor support, regressions all over the place, bad power management on laptops.
      Ok, I understand that some people have the vision "something doesn't work = everything sucks", but this is just exaggerated, and the lack of those applications isn't linux's fault, or do you really think that some day MS will release office for linux? (gnu/linux, not android obviusly, i mean a linux flavour that you have to install yourself).

      Said this, i hope that Wayland will be ready as soon as possible.

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      • #18
        Kristian Høgsberg after developing the project the past four years officially announced version 1.0 for Wayland.
        Pfft. That's just way too long...
        Oh well. Just goes to show how bad plumbing is in comparison with plan9.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by garegin View Post
          honestly i don't care. the gui on linux is so messed up, it would be like painting a broken car.
          Of course you care. If you didn't care, you wouldn't comment on a Linux-focused site.
          You don't see me visiting any Windows-focused sites.

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          • #20
            by i don't care I mean I am not holding my breath.

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            • #21
              On the ML thread jbarnes talks about power savings (and memory) with wayland. Could anyone explain a bit more on this??

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              • #22
                Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                On the ML thread jbarnes talks about power savings (and memory) with wayland. Could anyone explain a bit more on this??
                Not sure.

                My guess is that since Wayland is able to properly sync display updates with the refresh rate on the monitor and the applications can receive proper notifications when it comes to rendering a frame to display and such they can use the least amount of resources necessary to keep up with the display.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                  Of course not, the protocol just became stable TODAY. GTK, EFL, QT, and KDE can all work on Wayland support because of the "scratch your own itch" nature of OSS. Nvidia and AMD arent going to spend money on developers to make their drivers Wayland compatible when they may have to turn around and redo all of it the next day.
                  QT and GTK already run in Wayland. I don't know about the rest.

                  IT's not terrible if they don't. Everything that currently runs in X will be able to run fine on Wayland because you will have a Wayland X server.

                  X Windows is a protocol. This is analogous to HTTP.
                  X Clients are your applications. This is analogous to Web Sites.
                  X Server is were your applications get rendered. This is analogous to a Web browser.

                  So running your X Server as the manager for your hardware is like running a Web browser that fiddles with settings on your PCI bus... which is a terrible design. In a well designed system there is no need to run a X Windows server that manages your hardware. It's a network protocol after all. Do you want something that listens on your network having direct access to your PCI bus and full root access to everything in your system?

                  So you will be able to run X windows applications on top of Wayland the same way you run Websites on Wayland... by using a application that implements X Windows.

                  Just like how you can run X applications on Microsoft Windows and on OS X... Microsoft Windows can even run GLX applications.

                  As far as Nviida proprietary drivers (which are the only proprietary drivers worth caring about) "supporting" Wayland.. all Wayland technically needs is EGL support.
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGL_(OpenGL)

                  People can already run Wayland on Android's graphic stack... I don't see why it would be a great leap to run it on Nvidia's graphic stack. Nvidia needs to support EGL on Linux anyways for embedded systems. It's natural that they would be able to support it on desktop systems.

                  Meanwhile Nvidia proprietary driver users will be able to run Wayland by running Wayland full screen on top of NVidia/Xorg X server until Nvidia decides to support the EGL extensions Wayland needs.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by asdx
                    Qt, NOT QT.

                    Qt == Qt
                    QT == QuickTime
                    I think I can do that too!

                    GTK+, NOT GTK.

                    GTK is what it was called before turning object-oriented.

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                    • #25
                      Here is a Fedora wayland livecd:
                      http://people.fedoraproject.org/~rhughes/wayland/

                      Tested this morning in a KVM machine and cannot see much difference with Gnome3, if any at all. OK, KVM is extreme slow if it comes to 3D performance, so it was a little laggy but looks 100% the same as with Xorg-Server.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by asdx
                        Qt, NOT QT.

                        Qt == Qt
                        QT == QuickTime
                        OT:

                        QuickTime was when I started hateing Apple long before I knew about Macs and iPhones.
                        One player just to be able to play retarded *.mov videos. Almost as bad as Real Player back in the day.
                        QT sucks ballz. Thank god it is now meaningless like it should be.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          the average consumer needs [..] photoshop
                          No.

                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          blueray
                          If it was legal there would be an out-of the box blu-ray player. You seem to blame linux for AACS LA intentionally creating legal hurdles for creating and playing blu-rays just because they want royalties.

                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          , netflix. they are gonna start using linux because stallman lectures them about their freedom.
                          And yet all of the above you listed does not run on linux - because Stallman is right.

                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          power users shy from linux too- lacks on apps,
                          No.

                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          sucky multi-monitor support,
                          xrandr --output LVDS1 --preferred --output HDMI2 --preferred --left-of LVDS1 --primary
                          Works every time, all the time.

                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          regressions all over the place,
                          Yes.
                          I still can't use my HP Scanjet 3300c on windows 7. Not that I would want, since it works with sane just fine.

                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          bad power management on laptops.
                          On bad hardware that doesn't behave like it should, yes. On hardware that does what it should do, it's just fine.

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                          • #28
                            I am posting this from the Fedora Wayland live CD(usb in my case actually).
                            At first I was worried since I saw nothing Wayland like and it seemed buggier, but then realized I needed to run something like "weston-launch"(it launched weston in fullscreen, needed to do so as root for some reason .. Worked both from tty where I logged in as root and from terminl under Gnome Shell/xorg).
                            And wow, first time I ever see the window truly moving along with the cursor under Linux and not laggin behind(after trying various card/driver combinations for that, not Intel though, but I'm sure it's the same), it's enough to impress me .. XD
                            Similarly resizing works perfect.
                            (Only under Linux I have experienced said lags, should be mentioned as well.)
                            Although I can't run anything other than Wayland's terminal .. When I launch them they fail to find the display or something, "Error cannont open display 0:0"(I have xorg in one and weston on another tty, and firefox is on xorg :/). Launching them with "--display=0:0", or 1:0, 0:1 and whatever random numbers only changes the last part of the error ..
                            I'm a bit of a noob in this ..
                            Maybe there's a way to do it. It's certainly smooth, just like I expected, loving that part. On the contrary, the xorg in here is glitchy beyong belief though(the text I'm typing has not been rendered correctly for a signle second, random parts glitch out all the time). Btw, by xorg I don't mean XWayland, I couldn't to that one ..
                            Right click on window decoration and then on "Rotate" doesn't seem to do much .. Maybe it needs some keyboard-mouse combination I have no idea of ... -.-
                            After fullscreening the terminal(Right Click --> Fullscreen) I couldn't find how to unfullscreen it, I could only type "exit" and close it ..

                            Original post about live CD by disi.

                            Originally posted by disi View Post
                            Here is a Fedora wayland livecd:
                            http://people.fedoraproject.org/~rhughes/wayland/

                            Tested this morning in a KVM machine and cannot see much difference with Gnome3, if any at all. OK, KVM is extreme slow if it comes to 3D performance, so it was a little laggy but looks 100% the same as with Xorg-Server.


                            **Before sending the above I decided to test again whether I need to be root to launch weston via tty, weston-launch refused, but weston command launched weston in fullcreen while logged in a liveuser in the tty. But every went completely unresponsive and I had to manually reboot ..(Ctrl+Alt+Fx not wroking either)
                            Not sure if related to weston or just random bug(happened in my previous try too.
                            Other than that I'm pleased. Wayland was started with "perfect frames" in mind. It seems to live up to that.
                            Might try Rebecca Black OS these days too .. xD

                            If anyone knows how to launch X apps from wayland-terminal while in Wayland in Fedora Wayland live CD, I'd love to try. Or how to rotate windows .. xP
                            Last edited by Rigaldo; 10-25-2012, 10:28 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Rigaldo View Post
                              I am posting this from the Fedora Wayland live CD(usb in my case actually).
                              At first I was worried since I saw nothing Wayland like and it seemed buggier, but then realized I needed to run something like "weston-launch"(it launched weston in fullscreen, needed to do so as root for some reason .. Worked both from tty where I logged in as root and from terminl under Gnome Shell/xorg).
                              And wow, first time I ever see the window truly moving along with the cursor under Linux and not laggin behind(after trying various card/driver combinations for that, not Intel though, but I'm sure it's the same), it's enough to impress me .. XD
                              Similarly resizing works perfect.
                              (Only under Linux I have experienced said lags, should be mentioned as well.)
                              Although I can't run anything other than Wayland's terminal .. When I launch them they fail to find the display or something, "Error cannont open display 0:0"(I have xorg in one and weston on another tty, and firefox is on xorg :/). Launching them with "--display=0:0", or 1:0, 0:1 and whatever random numbers only changes the last part of the error ..
                              I'm a bit of a noob in this ..
                              Maybe there's a way to do it. It's certainly smooth, just like I expected, loving that part. On the contrary, the xorg in here is glitchy beyong belief though(the text I'm typing has not been rendered correctly for a signle second, random parts glitch out all the time). Btw, by xorg I don't mean XWayland, I couldn't to that one ..
                              Right click on window decoration and then on "Rotate" doesn't seem to do much .. Maybe it needs some keyboard-mouse combination I have no idea of ... -.-
                              After fullscreening the terminal(Right Click --> Fullscreen) I couldn't find how to unfullscreen it, I could only type "exit" and close it ..

                              **Before sending the above I decided to test again whether I need to be root to launch weston via tty, weston-launch refused, but weston command launched weston in fullcreen while logged in a liveuser in the tty. But every went completely unresponsive and I had to manually reboot ..(Ctrl+Alt+Fx not wroking either)
                              Not sure if related to weston or just random bug(happened in my previous try too.
                              Other than that I'm pleased. Wayland was started with "perfect frames" in mind. It seems to live up to that.
                              Might try Rebecca Black OS these days too .. xD

                              If anyone knows how to launch X apps from wayland-terminal while in Wayland in Fedora Wayland live CD, I'd love to try. Or how to rotate windows .. xP
                              The "rotate" in the right-clickable menu is just a left over noop, that ought to have been removed some time ago (the live CD must be using an old version of Weston),
                              rotating is done with a certain key combination.
                              I have once seen a "cheat sheet" somewhere on the internet with all key combinations, but can't find it right now. Just try out a couple obvious ones..

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                              • #30
                                @Ancurio

                                You're right, it's old .. From April.
                                Hope I can find a newer one. Maybe I'll try Rebecca Black, although this is also outdated(but has scripts to build the newer version IIRC).

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