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  • #31
    Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
    You only learn things to earn monies and get rich quick?
    There's a thing called paying the bills at the end of the month...maybe you heard of it.

    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
    It's astonishing that some people cannot get their heads around the idea the for a product as complex as a modern GPU, open drivers are little more than a nice promise today. I may be more simple minded, but I'll take what works, thank you. Would I like all drivers to be open sourced? Sure! But there's this thing out there called "the world" that you can't just ignore. Or change at will.
    I wish I could shout this at the top of my lungs! I'm a realist, and I know that we don't live in a perfect world. If this were the case, everything would be open source, wars wouldn't be fought between nations and cars would run on sunflower oil only. So for now, we have to make due with what we have. I use Intel's open source drivers because I don't game or do anything GPU intensive on Linux. But if I did, I would definitely use the NVIDIA blob, not because it's closed source, not because I want to piss people off, but because it's the best.

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    • #32
      I spend a lot of time playing games, and I use the free Radeon Gallium3D drivers. So maybe you would like to clarify on how it is useless for gaming? Yes, certain games (but fewer and fewer everday) may not run properly, but to say it is useless for running all games (especially Linux natives games) is a a laughable assertion and an insult to the hard work of many dedicated driver developers.

      *Closes browser and goes back to playing Trine 2*

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
        It is useless if you want to do anything more than desktop compositing. For games, it is practically useless.
        Yesterday I tried skyrim with wine on my HD 6550M. I have not measured anything but I would say it is about half as fast as it would be on windows + catalyst. So on this not very strong card it's "almost playable". Aside from occassional texture corruption and slowdowns it even seems to render better than catalyst on windows where for example in the intro the wings of the dragon were flickering.

        I believe on a stronger card you could play it just fine and it wouldn't be "practically useless".

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
          Yesterday I tried skyrim with wine on my HD 6550M. I have not measured anything but I would say it is about half as fast as it would be on windows + catalyst. So on this not very strong card it's "almost playable". Aside from occassional texture corruption and slowdowns it even seems to render better than catalyst on windows where for example in the intro the wings of the dragon were flickering.

          I believe on a stronger card you could play it just fine and it wouldn't be "practically useless".
          People buy "stronger cards" because they want them to be strong, not for them to get crippled by drivers.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            Useless? I've been running them for years.

            You shouldn't talk about things you haven't even tried.
            Believe me, I've tried them, at least the ones from AMD.

            * No power management.
            * No HW video acceleration
            * No OpenCL (there is a prelilminary version now)
            * No performance.

            => The open source drivers are useless.

            I don't buy hardware for a few hundred dollar, just to be able to use it properly in 10 years.
            I bought it now, because I need it now!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
              People buy "stronger cards" because they want them to be strong, not for them to get crippled by drivers.
              Yes, but the point was they're not "practically useless".

              I think Optimus/Enduro are actually not that bad when it works together with proprietary drivers: Have decently fast open source intel drivers do basically everything and have the option to offload only rendering to some blob with the dedicated card and then have the intel driver output the rendered result.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Temar View Post
                Believe me, I've tried them, at least the ones from AMD.
                [...]
                => The open source drivers are useless.
                [...]
                Believe me, I've tried them, at least the ones from AMD.

                => The open source drivers gave me a flicker-free experience unlike the blobs. I could watch movies on my dual screen setup, compositing on completely without tearing.
                Also they worked out of the box, also they work for most office workloads without any administration required.

                They might be useless for you, maybe they are also still inadequate for gaming in general, but they are far from useless for many other users. And one more thing: They will be the ONLY choice for many old generation cards to come.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by tstrunk View Post
                  They might be useless for you, maybe they are also still inadequate for gaming in general, but they are far from useless for many other users.
                  There might be some users who are willing to put up with this crap and some who have to. Still the OSS drivers are in no way a real alternative to the binary blobs. Only evangelists are torturing themselves with these drivers. Normal people just use what works best. Why should I watch the driver drain all my battery if I have a better alternative? Why should I deal with missing features if a better alternative is just an "apt-get install" away.

                  And one more thing: They will be the ONLY choice for many old generation cards to come.
                  By that time those drivers will hopefully work. Otherwise just buy new stuff. No one cares about 10 year old hardware.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Temar View Post
                    There might be some users who are willing to put up with this crap and some who have to. Still the OSS drivers are in no way a real alternative to the binary blobs. Only evangelists are torturing themselves with these drivers. Normal people just use what works best. Why should I watch the driver drain all my battery if I have a better alternative? Why should I deal with missing features if a better alternative is just an "apt-get install" away.



                    By that time those drivers will hopefully work. Otherwise just buy new stuff. No one cares about 10 year old hardware.
                    Generalizations, generalizations everywhere.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                      This. Looking at the radeon driver, we'll get 2D acceleration, some OpenGL support and basic power saving that will sometimes work on 6 years old card by 2020. That is so the way to go...
                      Having tried it once in 2005 does not qualify you to comment on it. You have no idea what you're talking about.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                        It's astonishing that some people cannot get their heads around the idea the for a product as complex as a modern GPU, open drivers are little more than a nice promise today. I may be more simple minded, but I'll take what works, thank you. Would I like all drivers to be open sourced? Sure! But there's this thing out there called "the world" that you can't just ignore. Or change at will.
                        The only driver that WORKS for any GPUs in Linux, ARE the open source drivers. Predominantly for AMD and INTEL hardware.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Temar View Post
                          This!

                          The current open source drivers are useless and until this changes I'll stick with the binary blobs.
                          The blob is useless and the open source drivers are the ones that actually work.
                          That is, unless "works" is synonymous with "beat your head against a wall until you're dead".

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by johnc View Post
                            It's definitely easier to use a blob.

                            Why would somebody try to learn the intricacies of GPU driver programming just to get his $300 card to work right?
                            Excuse me? How you figure?

                            Take your favorite distro's install disk, put in disk tray, follow instructions to install.
                            Done.

                            How can anything be any easier than that? Particularly the following;

                            Take your favorite distro's install disk, put in disk tray, follow instructions to install, download blob driver, mess with terminal for an hour, have it complain that its not compatible, research on internet forums for 3 days, figure out how to hack the installer to actually install, install, find that its incompatible with your current kernel or xorg, download old kernel, compile and install it the hard way, try to boot.... fail. Research on internet forums for 3 weeks, find all incompatibilities with old kernel, build and install old versions of those, finally it boots, reinstall blob driver, now finally it works, but poorly, and crashes frequently.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                              It is useless if you want to do anything more than desktop compositing. For games, it is practically useless.
                              Funny, every game I've ever tried worked just fine....

                              Also, if you want video acceleration, good luck.
                              If you want video DECODE acceleration with the blob.... good luck. Your only real option is something like crystalhd, or shader-based.

                              Also, I like the latest version of OpenGL now
                              Nothing uses the latest version.

                              as opposed to so long from now that once they finally reach that version that it is irrelevant.
                              It will be ready by the time it is actually needed.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 1c3d0g View Post
                                There's a thing called paying the bills at the end of the month...maybe you heard of it.



                                I wish I could shout this at the top of my lungs! I'm a realist, and I know that we don't live in a perfect world. If this were the case, everything would be open source, wars wouldn't be fought between nations and cars would run on sunflower oil only. So for now, we have to make due with what we have. I use Intel's open source drivers because I don't game or do anything GPU intensive on Linux. But if I did, I would definitely use the NVIDIA blob, not because it's closed source, not because I want to piss people off, but because it's the best.
                                Your "best" has been recently found to contain critical debilitating privilege escalation exploits. Further, they have a tendency to have OTHER nasty debilitating bugs that go for years unfixed, their bug support process IGNORES ALL BUGS. If I was restricted to blobs, it sure as hell wouldn't be nvidia.

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