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Binary Driver Blobs Aren't Yet Ready For Wayland

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    1. Yes, they do release specifications for developers, sorry for putting them in the same boat as Nvidia for that. But in my case they are the shittiest company I have ever dealt with. Why? I have an HD4850, I had black screen problems on Windows with it, (lots of guys reported on their forums) never solved. On linux, small driver changes, no changelog. Now the card is unsupported on Linux, on Windows is or will be soon. This is an middle-end card from 3 generations ago. Wtf AMD?
    Just curious, why do you get "unsupported on Linux" ? The HD4xxx has moved to a legacy branch on a slower release schedule but there's already been a first release adding X 1.12 support...


    • #47
      Originally posted by asdx
      How about if instead of you insulting me (calling me shite) you try to do the same things you do with the blob but with nouveau, and when you see something that doesn't work, report that issue to the nouveau developers?

      Oh I know, of course you won't, you are an open-source hypocrite. Like the many others in this forum.
      I'm pretty sure the nouveau developers are aware of short comings and missing features in the driver - it isn't a question of stumbling across a bug, reproducing it and reporting it. They know power-management is a flop, they know they don't support OpenGL 4.x, etc. What would be the point in me contacting them over things they already know about, exactly?

      and by the way, while you are telling me to stop insulting you (like a little bitch!), you earlier posted to someone else this;

      Originally posted by asdx
      YOU should go and die in a fire. Fucking moron
      You are a little punk. You are are total peice of shite and you deserve ZERO respect from anyone in this forum.

      Originally posted by asdx
      You will rather call nouveau "garbage" and insult the tremendous work of so many people who have bothered to RE the hardware for your own benefit, but then you go on braging that you "contributed" with bug reports.

      And yes, I have used Linux for a long time and contributed to hundred of bugs reports also, but that doesn't give me the right to insult people and their work, like you guys do.
      somehow how i don't believe that you have been using Linux nearly as long as you say, by not only your posts in this thread, but by the many others in other threads in the phoronix forums. IMO you're probably full of shit, but i won't exclude all possibilities Now;

      1st. Don't misquote me to support your fallacious statements.... I never said that Nouveau was garbage. What i did say was it is garbage compared to the blob. You do know their is a huge difference there, right? To be quite honest though, i would go much further and say - not only is it crap compared to the blob, but also compared to any of the other main OSS GFX drivers... 2nd. How does reverse-engineering something that i don't even use 'benefit me' exactly? (it doesn't, i don't use it!). it did possibly benefit Nouveau though, being as i was using unsupported GFX card and the data i collected could have helped in their efforts. 3rd. I wasn't insulting their work. Nouveau compared to the blob sucks crap in a variety of ways.

      Originally posted by asdx
      You guys are nothing but open-source hypocrites and morons.

      Fuck off now.
      How am i a "open-source hypocrit"??? - have i made some claim that i am a person who only uses open-source? no, i have not.... I use lots of FOSS software and i also use lots of proprietary software. i have several Linux machines and i also have a Mac. You do realize in order for someone to be a hypocrite, they actually have to do something hypocritical, right???

      LOL. you such a dumb fucking SHITE!
      Last edited by ninez; 07-25-2012, 05:53 PM.


      • #48
        asdx i think is the new Q )

        i agree blobs are bad but isnt linux all about choice? why are u being so comunist) we can all live toghether blobs and OSS drivers in same ecosystem. try to let go off all that hate u have inside u and dont spam it here on forums. in the end .... end-user wants choice, choice to run what ever operating system wants or need on his hardware, some want to use their hardware to their full extent that means using blobs, others are just fine with OSS drivers included in distros they use. I for myself i am using OSS radeon driver after in the past succesfully using ati blob, but for my mobility hd 3200 latest amd driver is getting coruptions in windows and linux, so i can say i am pretty good using OSS radeon except the overheating of my laptop. Just for the sake of talking i dont see any major improvement for my card in latest radeon developement i had same frames in mesa 7.8 as i have i mesa 8.0 its true i only ran extremetuxracer for test got aprox 30 fps and with blob around 90.

        And as the trend goes developers will always concentrate on new hardware. So i dont think i`ll see in this life an OSS radeon driver on same feature parity as the official amd blob as crappy as buggy as it is. Kudos for intel dev for actually trying to make a difference i hope only that they improve their hardware also. Hope i didnt offended anyone i just spoke my mind, if by any change i did i appologize in advance.


        • #49
          Let's get the facts straight with real life examples:
          * AMD released specs in 2007 (?), that's FIVE years. Did OSS community get driver ready to be on par with fglrx performance wise or power management wise, even at half? NO. My laptop overheats and shuts down when using radeon driver, openarena is slow not counting any other demanding game. fglrx - fine and working. And I have lenovo T500, which supposed to run linux quite good.
          * Intel OSS driver and cards, what are they for? Desktop usage. No 3D intensitive tasks, they are crap at games. Unity is SLOW on my GM45 chipset but Vista seems to be fine (I tested it sooo long ago). Now what: OSS can't keep up, but intel is the best supporting drivers. Good for users, well to some extent only.
          * HTPC (+nvidia), what it supposed to be: quiet, small, power efficient computer on which we run linux and play 1080p w/o issues. Show me ANY HTPC with OSS drivers that can run 1080p let's say at max 20W usage? NONE, there are NONE. My ION + Atom is about 20W, it's small robust and can be attached to the back of my FHD LED TV with proper HDMI support. OSS not near the goal.
          * Every propriety driver has some intellectual property from 3rd parties (not counting the code they write themselves and won't want to show), they can't be opened up, so NO, fglrx or nvidia never will be opensource.
          * There already are mentioned facts about Android in this thread, not everyone are willing to be OSS, but a lot from them are willing to be supporting linux.

          If specs are opened, how fast OSS can keep up if every year there are NEW SHINY cards available from vendors? By current trend - NEVER.
          Do anyone thinks that OSS coders were born with graphics stuff in their heads? Do they know how to optimize OpenGL and stuff like that? NO, they are learning, graphics is most complex stuff in computer.
          Linux needs proper, fast and stable GL drivers to enter the real business, OSS - NO, they can't keep up with the pace and don't have the knowledge. AMD/NVIDIA they are hiring people to write that stuff, there are specialized knowledge needed etc.

          By saying NO to binary drivers, someone will be shooting himself in the both foots. If Wayland is doing that, well, good luck.
          For end-users binary drivers are best bet for say next 5 years, OSS can't keep up and there are good reasons for that but those are not gonna change any time soon.

          So anyone saying "blobs must die" are living in imaginary world, please close your eyes while dreaming.

          P.S. And yes, asdx is 11 years old troll, how can ninez be so polite (think)


          • #50
            Originally posted by asdx
            You are the fucking piece of shit. Fuck off, douchebag.
            that's all you got???? really?? not going to address a single point??

            this is what you say because you have nothing intelligent to contribute, just a bunch of non-sensical rubbish, trolling and ending each post, telling whomever you are responding to to 'fuck off'. LOL.

            sorry about you luck, but if you continue to make assoholic posts - i for one have no problem calling you on it

            just fucking try me, you little puke!


            • #51
              Originally posted by Temar View Post
              Haha, yeah great idea - let the CPU do all the work and let the GFX chip burn even more power because your precious OSS driver does not even support proper power management.

              If you have a 3 core Llano, you probably have a A6-3500. That CPU alone has a TDP of 65 W! Yes, I really can see how this is an alternative for a low power, low noise, HTPC. My Intel Atom system with Nvidia Ion does not even have a fan and it's power supply has a maximum output of 25W.

              Have fun with your OSS driver and your crappy HTPC.
              It's a Mini-ITX system with a low-ish wattage power supply. The system is inaudible from where I sit on the sofa. This system is running a full MythTV backend, which includes recording, file serving, commercial flagging, transcoding, and occasional ripping duties.

              The Atom was absolutely unacceptable for my purposes, as I also wanted the system to be able to handle some emulation duties as well as the other duties described. An Atom would not have been fast enough for the systems that I wanted to emulate. Brazos probably wouldn't have been fast enough either. Llano is. If all I wanted was a general media playback device, I would've bought something like a Roku.

              Some people use their HTPCs as more than just dumb playback devices.


              • #52
                Originally posted by enrico.tagliavini View Post
                I agree fglrx is not the best solution, of course it is not! Damn the intel driver is a paradise compared to it. I sold every AMD/NVIDIA machine I had to switch to intel. But still fglrx, even it is an half pile of bugged crap, is usefull to someone. Burning it is not a good solution.
                Don't get me wrong, I've used fglrx in the past, even in the recent past. I spent most of last year programming OpenCL code with fglrx and Nvidia's blob. They both did just fine on a single-monitor system that was running in Unity. The performance and power management are the highlights of the blobs in my opinion. I also hope that the radeon kernel drivers get to the point that dynpm can be switched on by default without vblank timing issues, so that laptop users can breathe easier (I had an x300-based laptop that had similar heat issues to you, but I didn't manage to kill it).


                • #53
                  Originally posted by asdx
                  I won't address your childish insulting points because I have better things to do with my time.
                  no, you won't address them, because you have nothing that is actually valid to discuss :\ I also like how by not addressing them, as far as i am concerned to have validated everything i said. ~ thanks

                  Originally posted by asdx
                  You're the puke here.

                  Oh you said you're an Apple user, what a fucking faggot.

                  Go away douche.
                  The least you could do, if your going to try to insult me - is be a little creative (ie: not just repeating what i said to you).

                  Yes, i own a Macbook Pro - so what? I am into Proaudio - many of the best apps are for Mac (or Windows, but i don't use Windows). I own adobe CS5 and also use some Mac-only apps like Max/MSP, for example. I also need to be able to test on all platforms for work (as a part of my Job). I don't use OSes as a fashion statement or political statement - I use what works the best for my purposes. Linux is my platform of choice, however Apple/MacOSX offers a lot of software, which their are ZERO counterparts for linux, or incredibly crappy alternatives... for some stuff, it is nice to have a Mac around for.

                  but you can continue with your childish, Juvenile, obtuse points of view if you like


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by asdx
                    You guys are a huge disappointment to the Linux community, you won't even respect Linus Torvalds matter on the subject.

                    Please go and use Windows and stay there if you love close-source blobs so much.

                    Fuck you, all of you.

                    I'm done here.

                    good. leave and don't come back - close your account and..... wait.... wait... wait for it.....

                    FUCK RIGHT OFF

                    @everyone else - i think we broke asdx' brain. lol
                    Last edited by ninez; 07-25-2012, 06:31 PM.


                    • #55
                      Michael, if you do not start moderating posts such as asdx's, I will start getting my Linux updates elsewhere.


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by asdx
                        Ok, let's stop with the insults.

                        What point exactly you want me to address?
                        why don't you go back and read them yourself!! why should i have to rewrite paragraphs, when you didn't take the time to address them in the first place, but instead just slung a sentence worth insults?

                        but it's not only my posts (for example #61) but other users posts as well.

                        it's pretty much useless, though. I have ZERO respect for you and i have a feeling i am not the only one :\ - and that's been building up since you first started posting in these forums (or at least the first times i saw you posting).

                        ....and what do you know! - someone is already asking Michael to moderate the forums, and specifically is mentioning YOUR NAME.

                        I won't lie and say that i am not being a dick right now - but straight up - i am sooo sick of people like Q and yourself, who are essentially just in these forums to piss off people and cause problems.
                        Last edited by ninez; 07-25-2012, 06:44 PM.


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                          Michael, if you do not start moderating posts such as asdx's, I will start getting my Linux updates elsewhere.

                          Banning Qaridarium has made these forums a bit more tolerable but I don't think it should end there. Asdx is probably the wost among the worst at the moment with his trollish, insulting and plain idiotic posts that poison the atmosphere of these forums.


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Teho View Post

                            Banning Qaridarium has made these forums a bit more tolerable but I don't think it should end there. Asdx is probably the wost among the worst at the moment with his trollish, insulting and plain idiotic posts that poison the atmosphere of these forums.

                            maybe we should start a ban asdx thread, like people did for Q??


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Teho View Post

                              Banning Qaridarium has made these forums a bit more tolerable but I don't think it should end there. Asdx is probably the wost among the worst at the moment with his trollish, insulting and plain idiotic posts that poison the atmosphere of these forums.
                              Another +1, this is beyond ridiculous.


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by asdx
                                Yeah feel free to ban me. What do I have to lose? Talking with some douchebags (appletards among them) and open source hypocrites who do nothing but defend Nvidia and their crappy blob.

                                Fuck you all.
                                we've been over this - you have to do something hypocritical in order to be a hypocrite. People who are using the blobs, or use ANY closed-source software by choice are not hypocrits. they would only be hypocritical had they made the claim they were pure FOSS, while using these blobs. Some education might do you some good. seriously. :\

                                calling me an appletard doesn't bother me, sorry if you thought it would.

                                no dice, champ!

                                Originally posted by asdx
                                Ban yourself from life idiot, go kill yourself. Douche.
                                asdx, that's not very nice :O LOLOLOLOLOL.

                                sorry if your not used to people calling you on your crap, but if no one is actually going to monitor these forums, maybe a few of us need to put shmuck's like you in their place.

                                @everyone else - yup, we definitely broke asdx' brain.
                                Last edited by ninez; 07-25-2012, 07:03 PM.