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Proposal For Wayland With Virtual Terminals

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  • Proposal For Wayland With Virtual Terminals

    Phoronix: Proposal For Wayland With Virtual Terminals

    The developer responsible for KMSCON and FBLOG is seeking comments on a proposed design for virtual terminals and multiple seats that relies upon Wayland as a system-wide compositor...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTEzMzI

  • #2
    As far as i understand it (not far enough obviously) the whole Ctrl-Alt+Fx will be a thing of the past once wayland lands and this behavior will be emulated or not used at all since we only need it when graphics fuck up (quite rare i think nowadays) and you don't have a gui.

    But why you involve wayland in something that will be useful in cases that graphics are not required.


    Could someone explain the whole thing in non technical terms??

    Comment


    • #3
      since we only need it when graphics fuck up
      Or when you actually want to work in a terminal. We people still exist :P

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by curaga View Post
        Or when you actually want to work in a terminal. We people still exist :P
        I know there are crazy people among us

        [j/k]

        Comment


        • #5
          So let me get this straight.... His proposed solution to this is YET ANOTHER COMPLEX LOW-LEVEL DAEMON DEPENDING ON HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LINES OF CODE!?

          My comments: No. Go away. Stop.

          Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from? It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite when you're being marginalised by these half-assed, half-cocked complexifying solutions to things dreamed up by greenhorns.

          And I'm fed up with it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wet behind the ears?

            Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
            So let me get this straight.... His proposed solution to this is YET ANOTHER COMPLEX LOW-LEVEL DAEMON DEPENDING ON HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LINES OF CODE!?

            My comments: No. Go away. Stop.

            Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from?
            Well, the topic is still under discussion, so feel free to jump in and offer a better solution, since your obviously not "wet-behind-the-ears". And, I'm not extremely well informed on Wayland works, or even what the implications would be if they do make these changes, but I fail to see how your being marginalised. As far as I can tell, being "marginalised" is when your opinion is made less significant than it really is. But, you haven't let them know what your opinion is yet. There isn't a majority who agrees with you that are being ignored. It seems to be simply a case of people who have to make decisions aren't making the decisions you want them to. That's part of leadership, to make the decision you believe are right, regardless if they're popular or not.

            But, again, you are free to discuss the topic with them considering you are such an expert on the topic.

            Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
            It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite when...
            It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite because you are not a polite person. Don't pretend that the way you act is other people's fault.

            Comment


            • #7
              When you get to the point of running it within wayland, you're already at the point where you might as well just fullscreen a bunch of gnome-terminals. The whole point of VT's is that they don't require a huge degree of complexity. For example, you don't need to have Xorg or wayland installed AT ALL.

              What happens when you're trying to update wayland with a custom u-hacked version and you goofed up one of your variables and cause it to crash before getting to a usable point?

              Right now we have a very powerful control over the user level, single user mode, multi-user mode, multi-user mode with Xorg. In a diagnostics situation, you need to be able to cut back on the complexity until you get to a point where you don't depend on the broken parts.

              In a server situation, you tend to run in multi-user non-graphical. Adding xorg/wayland/whatever, adds an overhead that you simply do not require.

              Right now, you can boot to a functional console with nothing but a kernel and initrd.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                When you get to the point of running it within wayland, you're already at the point where you might as well just fullscreen a bunch of gnome-terminals. The whole point of VT's is that they don't require a huge degree of complexity. For example, you don't need to have Xorg or wayland installed AT ALL.

                What happens when you're trying to update wayland with a custom u-hacked version and you goofed up one of your variables and cause it to crash before getting to a usable point?
                Then you fall back on the kernel console, which isn't going away.

                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                In a server situation, you tend to run in multi-user non-graphical. Adding xorg/wayland/whatever, adds an overhead that you simply do not require.
                In a server situation you're not multiplexing a physical keyboard, mouse, and display; VTs are entirely irrelevant.
                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                Right now, you can boot to a functional console with nothing but a kernel and initrd.
                And after this work, you'll be able to boot to a functional console with nothing but a kernel and initrd. Depending on what gets done, you might not be able to use Ctrl-Alt-F1-6 to switch to different VTs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                  So let me get this straight.... His proposed solution to this is YET ANOTHER COMPLEX LOW-LEVEL DAEMON DEPENDING ON HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LINES OF CODE!?

                  My comments: No. Go away. Stop.

                  Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from? It's extremely difficult to be even remotely polite when you're being marginalised by these half-assed, half-cocked complexifying solutions to things dreamed up by greenhorns.

                  And I'm fed up with it.
                  Can't disagree here. Well, with the first line at least

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With Herrmann communicating with Lennart, they came up with some ideas, including the use of Wayland as a system-wide compositor for handling all video input.
                    As soon I saw that Lennart Poettering was involved I knew this was no good...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rallos Zek View Post
                      As soon I saw that Lennart Poettering was involved I knew this was no good...
                      Do you have any actual critique towards the project? Lennart to me seems like a extremely talented developer who works on technical basis. His haters then again seem to hate him just because they hate him. Very rich.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rallos Zek View Post
                        As soon I saw that Lennart Poettering was involved I knew this was no good...
                        So you hate him because all the awesome projects he has started, but other projects failed to integrate correctly, giving Lennarts (not the abusing) projects a bad name.
                        Or do you hate him just because he actually see problems and tries to solve them, and just not tell people to "work around it"/"buy another soundcard"/diddely-that?

                        Now systemds journald, that is another thing, but other than that most of the stuff he talks about usually has some merits.

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                        • #13
                          Have you forgotten about PulseAudio???

                          Originally posted by Xake View Post
                          So you hate him because all the awesome projects he has started, but other projects failed to integrate correctly, giving Lennarts (not the abusing) projects a bad name.
                          Or do you hate him just because he actually see problems and tries to solve them, and just not tell people to "work around it"/"buy another soundcard"/diddely-that?

                          Now systemds journald, that is another thing, but other than that most of the stuff he talks about usually has some merits.

                          Seriously have you forgotten about PuleAudio???
                          I don't have the same criticism against Systemd, at least it's operating at the correct place.
                          Now if you created a new daemon above traditional init, and then named it SystemD, you'd have created the PulseAudio of init.

                          Regarding the comment about "work around it"...
                          What would you call an additional extraneous daemon, which was created to 'deal with' Alsa's architectural deficiencies?
                          Such a kludge, as described, is normally called a workaround. He added features, but at the cost of latency, processing and code, is this is not a reason for skepticism?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                            Seriously, where do these wet-behind-the-ears wackjobs even come from?
                            So, what have you written, then?

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