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Whoops, There's A Big Problem For Wayland GTK+

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Serafean View Post
    That is vey wishful thinking. Both companies have repeatedly said that their binary blobs target mainly Workstations. Wayland is meant for desktops/embedded. If OSS drivers die, so does the Linux desktop.

    what stops wayland from being used in workstations.

    ubuntu will switch to wayland at some point and i am pretty sure the blob people will support it (at least i hope amd will )

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    • #17
      There's also the question of licensing. If the kernel does not provide non-GPL symbols for the KMS interface, then it effectively disallows the blobs to do KMS. But that's an "if", I don't actually know.

      In general, KMS in the blobs doesn't sound impossible. They would need glue in form of a kernel module with the actual functionality being provided by the blob.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
        There's also the question of licensing. If the kernel does not provide non-GPL symbols for the KMS interface, then it effectively disallows the blobs to do KMS. But that's an "if", I don't actually know.

        In general, KMS in the blobs doesn't sound impossible. They would need glue in form of a kernel module with the actual functionality being provided by the blob.
        wayland can work with openWF which i think is something similar to KMS and can be implemented without licensing concerns

        might be wrong though

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        • #19
          Originally posted by kraftman View Post
          I don't see how this is a problem for Wayland gtk+. It's problem for buggy nvidia blob. I hope nobody will wait for nvidia to support Wayland. It will be another reason to use AMD (if Catalyst won't have any problems).
          Masterpiece of sarcasm

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          • #20
            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
            Masterpiece of sarcasm
            only because you buy a nvidia card?

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            • #21
              If I'm reading this correctly, they're loading libGL into every application linked against GTK+ whether it uses OpenGL or not. Why can't they just call dlopen on it when they decide they need it?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Nille View Post
                And how old is this statement? One or two years?
                Well until they reissue another statement we'll have to assume that they haven't changed their mind. That said if there's a massive shift towards Wayland then NVidia will reassess the situation, their Linux customers are likely mainly in the 3D/SFX market and if these companies wants to start running Wayland on their workstations NVidia will oblige I'm sure. Thankfully the great work by the nouveau devs is making this into less of a problem.

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                • #23
                  wayland needs kms? do people realize that kms is broken for millions of computers worldwide. many times I had to do the nomodeset thingie in grub.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by garegin View Post
                    wayland needs kms? do people realize that kms is broken for millions of computers worldwide. many times I had to do the nomodeset thingie in grub.
                    Well, Wayland is probably the future, but not the present. The whole stack gets better over time.

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                    • #25
                      i've reported it to almost every linux forum, including this. kms is broken on many macs including the mac mini and macbook air. this is a known bug.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by asdx
                        And what have you done to help with that? Have you tried reporting bugs?

                        I never had problems with KMS, what driver/GPU were you using?
                        Idem. The only problem I had with KMS was in my Unichrome box, because it's not ready yet.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by garegin View Post
                          i've reported it to almost every linux forum, including this. kms is broken on many macs including the mac mini and macbook air. this is a known bug.
                          So, it seems you're using broken hardware. I never had any problems with KMS on my PC.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by garegin View Post
                            i've reported it to almost every linux forum, including this. kms is broken on many macs including the mac mini and macbook air. this is a known bug.
                            That's not reporting a bug. You report it to bugzilla (or any other bug filing framework kernel devs use) or to their mailing list. Not all devs are in forums, you know?

                            This can help you. I didn't read it yet because I've never found a mainstream bug (well, as a matter of fact, I've found a few, but they were already reported and fixed when I did figured out they were kernel bugs), and the ones with Openchrome were reported directly to their devlist.

                            EDIT: Whoops, forgot to put the link http://kernelnewbies.org/FoundBug.

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                            • #29
                              http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ch/002650.html

                              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                              In general, KMS in the blobs doesn't sound impossible. They would need glue in form of a kernel module with the actual functionality being provided by the blob.
                              Originally posted by Serafean View Post
                              KMS won't be easy for nvidia to implement in their binary blob (anyone remember the mess when OSS drivers became KMS enabled?). Another hard requirement for Wayland is EGL support, which I don't know if the binary blobs support.
                              Really? nVidia already support EGL and KMS in proprietary driver for Tegra. AMD already support EGL in driver for embedded hardware.
                              EGL is not strict dependecy for Wayland by the way (check Wayland FAQ).

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by asdx
                                Originally posted by garegin View Post
                                i've reported it to almost every linux forum, including this. kms is broken on many macs including the mac mini and macbook air. this is a known bug.
                                So file a bug if there isn't one already.
                                Actually there are several bugs already, just search https://bugs.freedesktop.org/.

                                One of the more notorious ones: Radeon KMS on Macs with EFI boot. The workaround is to modify the kernel with a patch that was rejected by the radeon developers, and make it load the VGA BIOS from a dump you created in bootcamp.

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