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How Important Is The Wayland Display Server?

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  • #11
    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    Any source for that? I've heard many people saying it but never seen an actual official statement or other proof that this will be so.
    no one knows what google is cooking, but they have a graphics stack for android, so it is reasonable to use the same for chromeos

    afterall they can coerce nvidia and the others into making drivers for their graphical stack

    as regards Xorg it is not bad, it is a mess in design

    Xrender, Mesa, Xvideo, these are all pieces that barely connect to each other in a less than satisfactory way

    everyone that has tried the compositing with X knows what I'm talking about

    but gallium is ready to clean all this mess, so the future Xorg will not be the one thousand pieces framework we use today

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    • #12
      Wayland is pretty much a decrapification of X. There's too much crap in X that can't go away or else it won't be X anymore. The problem is, nobody really wants to have to use X. But another problem is, you can't put X away because right now everything needs it.

      Reminds me of Microsoft; they still can't get rid of the MS-DOS stuff because there's lots of stuff out there that needs it.

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      • #13
        discussion forking...

        I'm sure the Phoronix guys had good intentions, but what we see here is a classic example of the detrimental effects of forking applied to a discussion.

        There are some constructive comments in here that it would be good for the person that initiated this discussion, along with others that participated in the original thread, to read. Instead we ended up with 2 threads.

        I can easily see the benefits of things like Gallium3D and talk about it, even if I have only basic knowledge on it's inner workings. However, even though I do understand the desire for a 'lighter' X alternative proposed with Wayland, I'd need to know a lot more about Wayland to have a meaningful opinion about it.

        I find this comment by Lowe interesting:
        "X is technically Free Software, but it is not a community project. "

        The lack of developers in Xorg is a direct result of its complexity, becoming a barrier for anyone attempting to 'enter' it. However, as people said before me, X is getting simplified by stripping away parts that better fit in other places, such as the kernel, leaving a more manageable code base.

        I like fresh ideas, who doesn't, but I'm always afraid of the detrimental effects of forking/diversifying.

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        • #14
          you're right ioannis, the real problem is the underlying complexity ( superhuman complexity I say ) of X

          gallium wants to simplify things, creating an elegant and an understandable framework for all graphical things

          I don't thing there will be a fork, but Xorg ( as we know now ) will die, completely replaced by gallium

          afterall the same people behind Xorg are working on gallium

          if we take into account gallium, we can think of wayland as another, unnecessary project that tries to reinvent the wheel....I think linux community has a lot to learn from the haiku one in the terms of organization

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          • #15
            Originally posted by pabloski View Post
            .I think linux community has a lot to learn from the haiku one in the terms of organization

            you are forgetting that Haiku is a more "focused" project

            from the beginning they are trying to create a desktop OS


            as for wayland i truly hope that it will be a new base that the community can built the next X (as in window system) on it

            time will tell

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            • #16
              [QUOTE=89c51;92023]you are forgetting that Haiku is a more "focused" project

              from the beginning they are trying to create a desktop OS
              [quote]

              right, but there are a lot of military and civil big projects that are managed in a more ordinate way

              there's no real motivation to have hundreds of different packaging formats

              as for wayland i truly hope that it will be a new base that the community can built the next X (as in window system) on it

              time will tell
              we won't need wayland if gallium mantains its promises

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              • #17
                I don't enough about X to know whether or not it is a pile of crap or a very good piece of software.
                But as a user and a reader of phoronix, one thing I can conclude, is that Xorg fails in term of public relations. It often fails at delivering on schedule and there is latency concerning the planning when the deadline is about to be missed.
                Deciding whether or not it is a technical issue or a pr one, is out of reach for my little knowledge.
                So to conclude, as a user seeing how hard to manage Xorg seems to be, I would like to believe that Wayland might ease the task.
                But as a developer, I know that starting something from scratch doesn't magically solve every problems.

                Maybe I missed the point but how gallium will replace X ? Xorg being a windowing system, it provides primitives to draw elements on the desktop. Lots of libraries like qt or gtk require X to perform their drawings.
                Even though I saw what clutter is able to do, it's far from being a library as complete as qt can be.
                I've seen port of clutter to wayland, but as of now, I just saw a very primitive library based on clutter that provides elements like menus and buttons.
                Last edited by lucky_; 09-12-2009, 05:06 PM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by pabloski View Post
                  we won't need wayland if gallium mantains its promises
                  Gallium3D won't replace X though -- they're very different things. Gallium3D has the potential to reduce duplication between the hardware-dependent portion of the X and Mesa *drivers*, but it won't do anything to affect the X server itself.
                  Last edited by bridgman; 09-12-2009, 05:05 PM.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Gallium3D won't replace X though -- they're very different things. Gallium3D has the potential to reduce duplication between the hardware-dependent portion of the X and Mesa *drivers*, but it won't do anything to affect the X server itself.
                    but if I understood it correctly, x will become a gallium state tracker right?

                    so a lot of stuff will be removed from x itself and it will become more manageable

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                    • #20
                      It's actually just the X *drivers* that can be replaced by a state tracker, using Gallium3D for acceleration and KMS for modesetting. The rest of X is unaffected.

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