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  • Mesa 7.1 Released, X.Org 7.4 Coming!

    Phoronix: Mesa 7.1 Released, X.Org 7.4 Coming!

    Tungsten's Brian Paul has today announced the release of Mesa 7.1. New in this open-source library used by Linux graphics drivers for providing OpenGL support is autoconf-based configuration, assorted DRI driver enhancements, reduced dependencies between the X server and Mesa, GL_EXT_texture_from_pixmap extension for Xlib driver, GLSL (GL Shading Language) support for the Intel 965, and ATI Radeon R500 (X1000) series support...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjY3Nw

  • #2
    Ok, I have a few questions:

    - Does this release support OpenGL 2, even for a few cards?

    - Does it support 3D on X500 cards? And is it usable? Can I run Compiz, or simple 3D games, or video using Xv? And performance?

    - does the GL_EXT_texture_from_pixmap extension help in anyway in regards to Compiz/Compositing?

    Thanks!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Extreme Coder View Post
      Ok, I have a few questions:

      - Does this release support OpenGL 2, even for a few cards?
      No the Free Drivers hang on 1.3 from 2001 ( and no texture compression is not an argument this is already in 1.3 )

      Originally posted by Extreme Coder View Post
      - Does it support 3D on X500 cards? And is it usable? Can I run Compiz, or simple 3D games, or video using Xv? And performance?
      I think so

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes mesa 7.1 does support the r500 cards, and they work pretty well. Unfortunately, they only have about OpenGL 1.3 right now, and the 3d performance is about half of what you get with fglrx (2d performance is better, though). In short, r500 cards are easily usable, but the support still lacks features and performance.

        OpenGL 2 (and one day, possibly 3) are supposed to come with gallium3D, but gallium has been held up by the DRM rejiggering. Fortunately, it looks like GEM will become the standard, and gallium support can be built on that.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TechMage89 View Post
          Yes mesa 7.1 does support the r500 cards, and they work pretty well. Unfortunately, they only have about OpenGL 1.3 right now, and the 3d performance is about half of what you get with fglrx (2d performance is better, though). In short, r500 cards are easily usable, but the support still lacks features and performance.

          OpenGL 2 (and one day, possibly 3) are supposed to come with gallium3D, but gallium has been held up by the DRM rejiggering. Fortunately, it looks like GEM will become the standard, and gallium support can be built on that.
          Ah.. I see. Thanks!
          Too bad Gallium will start being usable for stable use by the end of next year or something..
          And why can't Mesa implement a newer GL release?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Extreme Coder View Post
            - does the GL_EXT_texture_from_pixmap extension help in anyway in regards to Compiz/Compositing?
            GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is required for compiz
            (@ Michael, isn't it a typo (GL_ instead of GLX_ ?))

            Ah.. I see. Thanks!
            Too bad Gallium will start being usable for stable use by the end of next year or something..
            And why can't Mesa implement a newer GL release?
            Gallium is re-architecturized mesa, to support OpenGL 2 and 3

            Comment


            • #7
              I can use Kwin's compositing in KDE4 on my X1300. It's not ideal, but it works. So I would imagine that you could use Compiz with your X500.

              By the way, I'm running Gentoo with the x11 overlay (scripts to pull and compile from the git master branches), so I'm only a few days behind what's current.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                GL_EXT_texture_from_pixmap extension for Xlib driver
                So I guess that means compiz can now run without any sort of 3d card, entirely on the CPU (or not, if there's other extensions it depends on). I wonder how much CPU it requires for a typical desktop...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jeffro-tull View Post
                  I can use Kwin's compositing in KDE4 on my X1300. It's not ideal, but it works. So I would imagine that you could use Compiz with your X500.

                  By the way, I'm running Gentoo with the x11 overlay (scripts to pull and compile from the git master branches), so I'm only a few days behind what's current.
                  Why X11 overlay? I thought Radeon os-driver, already provide good support for Xv (via TextureVideo)?

                  http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature


                  In general, I think I can live without OpenGL 2/3 for now. Just let 2D(EXA), Desktop Effects and Video playback work flawlessly. ;-)

                  I understand, that Video/3D apps will flicker in Window mode, when Desktop Effects on, till somebody implement DRI2.. But I'm expecting that there are no reasons no to play them played correctly in the following cases:
                  - Desktop Effects: OFF -- Video/3D to be played correctly in both Window/Fullscreen mode;
                  - Desktop Effects: ON -- Video/3D to be played correctly in Fullscreen mode.

                  Can we really expect something like this?



                  And finally: what about AIGLX? Isn't that required for normal functioning of Compiz-like WMs on ATI/AMD cards? Or, this is a part of Xorg (how to check fo which Cards 7.4 has hardware-accelerated AIGLX)?


                  P.S.: please forgive me so many questions. I liked the news too much, and can't stop myself :-p

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Uhm, "overlay" is what in gentoo are external repositories for debian/ubuntu. Those are just "overlaying" the content of the normal package manager tree and thus providing some additional packages and other versions. The portage overlay for X11 eg includes git ebuilds for xorg stuff. It has *nothing* to do with video overlay stuff, it is package manager wording.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am using this on an R580. 3D works; I'm using Google Earth and Compiz. Actually, Compiz works much better with the open source radeon driver than it does with fglrx! There's no insane "lag" when maximizing windows or switching desktops, everything is fluid and instant.

                      Note: be sure to activate EXA though since XAA is the default.

                      However, Xv is tearing badly (just like with fglrx). Fortunately, Gl video with vsync works.

                      Wine doesn't work and most "advanced" games don't work either.
                      Last edited by RealNC; 08-27-2008, 06:05 AM.

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                      • #12
                        mityukov, you should be able to play video (using Textured Video) with the open source drivers under Compiz without flicker. 3D apps will still flicker until Redirected Direct Rendering, which is what requires DRI2. One day when I have free time I'll try to find out why we can't run 3D flicker-free today by forcing the 3D rendering to go through the indirect (AIGLX) path rather than the direct (DRI) path.

                        For video playback under Compiz, the general consensus seems to be that the real solution is to have Compiz impose sync-to-vblank during the compositing process (which uses OpenGL so should already have the ability to vsync) but I don't know if anyone is actually working on that yet. I don't know if Compiz syncs to vblank today. There seems to be an option for it but not sure if it actually works.

                        For video playback without Compiz, the 'missing link" is access to vsync in the X server via DRI which (if I understand correctly) is not there yet. Doesn't seem like a huge deal to implement but it's possible the devs see the Compiz route as making more sense long term. Not sure.
                        Last edited by bridgman; 08-27-2008, 07:07 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          For video playback under Compiz, the general consensus seems to be that the real solution is to have Compiz impose sync-to-vblank during the compositing process (which uses OpenGL so should already have the ability to vsync) but I don't know if anyone is actually working on that yet. I don't know if Compiz syncs to vblank today. There seems to be an option for it but not sure if it actually works.
                          It doesn't. Works with Xgl, not with AIGLX.

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                          • #14
                            Makes sense. Now that the coffee has started to take effect, I guess it's the same problem - only the direct rendering path (XGL) has vsync capabilities but the indirect (via X server) path does not - and Compiz uses the indirect path unless you're running with XGL.

                            I guess that means the X server needs vsync capability either way. From an architect's point of view that is good (nice and consistent) but from a developers point of view it sucks (somebody has to actually implement it and make it work ).
                            Last edited by bridgman; 08-27-2008, 08:17 AM.

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                            • #15
                              VSync works on nvidia's AIGLX implementation too...

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