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Gallium3D Direct3D 9 For Wine Revived, Again

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Gusar View Post
    Because it's an obvious one. You're big on the talk. But what do you have to back that talk up? Nothing.

    When a person is running wine and their game isn't working right, where will they go first? To the wine bug tracker of course. Which means wine devs have to triage the bug and investigate the issue, figure out where it lies. Or should they simply close bugs with "not my problem, report to mesa"? That'll work out great. Also, how can you know the issue is really in mesa?

    Again, big on the talk. Back it up by actions. Provide your wine, take enjoyment in people using a faster, less buggy product. It's all so trivial, so it shouldn't be an issue for you.

    Not a fork. A branch. You track mainline wine, and maintain the state tracker on top of it. That's not a fork, because you're always the same as mainline, save for one supposedly trivial addition.

    No, they can't just enable it. They have to incorporate the patch, and then make sure it still applies when the next version of wine is released. So pretty much maintain a branch of wine, something I proposed *you* do, because it's supposedly so trivial. They also have to deal with all user bug reports - they can't send users to upstream, because they're not distributing an upstream product.
    You are obviously ignorant about software and coding, so it makes no sense to continue this discussion. All that you say i have already answered previously.

    To say it again: The patch to make Wine able to use a d3d9 state tracker is trivial, and requires almost no maintainance. Other than political reasons, Wine/Crossover devs have no reason not to include it.

    Actually, the d3d state tracker is technically a far better choise for Linux systems, since it eliminates d3d to opengl translation overhead completely. It will also improve compatibility.

    Wine is their project, they can do whatever they want with it. But we have every right to criticize their decisions, even if this hurts your feelings...

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    • #22
      Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
      he did provide you with very valid argument. wine developers think it is not easy, you think it is. prove them wrong by maintaining this release, not just making it and dumping it on wine developers. 2nd one is really easy.
      OMG... Can't you people read? Wine developers LIE about it not being easy.

      No one asked them to create/maintain the D3D9 state tracker itself. Just the patch to use it, instead of using Wine's translation mechanism. How difficult is that?

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      • #23
        Originally posted by dffx View Post
        erm

        r600/radeonsi works fine in wine. i've not found a game i can't play with Wine and latest radeonsi build.

        performance is a different story -- with catalyst wine often fails fantastically. interestingly, however, is that games that run on both radeonsi and Catalyst tend to get the same performance on both drivers.
        What games are probed????? Try asssasins creed revelations (if can see something in game), damnation (same case with assasins creed revelations) and others and tell us, I only have some tested on my blog since 2009

        http://gamesonwine.blogspot.com

        And recently on my youtube channel

        https://www.youtube.com/user/mrdeathjr28

        Seriously if you want use wine, NVIDIA with privative drivers is your only option but AMD Opensource driver gains compatibility but performance is low and privative gain performance but loss compatibility but nvidia privative drivers have more performance and compatibility

        Last edited by pinguinpc; 01-13-2014, 04:44 PM.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by pinguinpc View Post
          What games are probed????? Try asssasins creed revelations (if can see something in game), damnation (same case with assasins creed revelations) and others and tell us, I only have some tested on my blog since 2009
          Any game with a free demo I could test?

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          • #25
            Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
            You are obviously ignorant about software and coding, so it makes no sense to continue this discussion. All that you say i have already answered previously.

            To say it again: The patch to make Wine able to use a d3d9 state tracker is trivial, and requires almost no maintainance. Other than political reasons, Wine/Crossover devs have no reason not to include it.

            Actually, the d3d state tracker is technically a far better choise for Linux systems, since it eliminates d3d to opengl translation overhead completely. It will also improve compatibility.

            Wine is their project, they can do whatever they want with it. But we have every right to criticize their decisions, even if this hurts your feelings...
            It's possible that they simply don't want to do QA on this patch.
            You know you need to test games with dx9 tracker once more.
            Anyway I think it's time to branch, as the wine team clearly has to balance different platforms while we - at least me - only want a faster wine under Linux.
            Last edited by zxy_thf; 01-13-2014, 05:12 PM.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by oleid View Post
              Any game with a free demo I could test?
              assasins creed dont have demo on steam but you buying on sale, im buying both at 75% each one cost 5us, dont expensive and damnation is cheap or you can search this titles trading (tf2outpost / steamtrades)

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              • #27
                Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                You are obviously ignorant about software and coding
                Look who's talking.

                You seem to think maintenance is just adding a few lines of code. You're completely missing the entire end-user support system that you also have to maintain when you distribute software - writing documentation, bug triaging, etc. You're also missing the QA burden - if wine devs incorporate support for the d3d tracker, then they have to test everything with both the tracker and the standard wine stack. Furthermore, when the devs make changes, they have to think how those changes might affect either the standard stack or the tracker and potentially change the tracker-related code, which consumes both time and brain power.

                There's is nothing whatsoever political about either of these, they're all practical, *real* burdens that get imposed on devs when they take a piece of code. So when you say "requires almost no maintainance", you're flat-out wrong. Adding a piece of code might be easy, but that's just one small part of maintenance. You're free to prove otherwise, but that will require more than just making big unverified assumptions and accusing people of lying.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                  OMG... Can't you people read? Wine developers LIE about it not being easy.

                  No one asked them to create/maintain the D3D9 state tracker itself. Just the patch to use it, instead of using Wine's translation mechanism. How difficult is that?
                  i'm a developer my self and i know i would do the same as wine developers. usually so called maintainers disappear and whole maintaining falls on developers who were never interested in that
                  they get exceeding bug noise, since common user won't know whom to contact to report it.

                  it is open source. if you don't like something you can
                  - stop using it
                  - search alternative
                  - fork, patch and maintain that codebase. if you're right ppl will pick it up. just look at MATE. when ppl 1st heard that one single guy will fork gnome 2... everybody laughed. now look at it. don't be a whining ass, have the balls to do it or shut up and crawl into your hole

                  how much did you pay wine developers so far to feel so entitled that developers must work extra work for you?

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                  • #29
                    Speaking of radeonsi, does this work on it/will it work?

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                    • #30
                      Wine is one hell of an old open source project. It's been around for ages! I remember using it on my 486 with one of the first 2.4 kernel. Wine developers are proud. It took an incredible amount of work to get to 1.0, and while everybody though it was foolish to develop such a layer, they've continued. If I put myself in place of the Wine developers, I can easily understand how I could refuse to add such functionality. It's been developed by someone who's external to the team, replace a complete subset that took a LOT of work to put in place in the first place and opens up a possibility of new bugs. Not only that, but it would only benefit a small fraction of users and would be dedicated to Linux (and FreeBSD when the tracker gets ported). So, yeah, I understand them.

                      But at the same time, it's hot, it's new, it has the potential to bring a lot more Wine usage and could even live outside if a modular architecture get in place. I'd love to see both the DX9 and the DX10/11 tracker thrive and enable Linux gaming a lot more. Hell, one could even wrap what's left of DirectX and enable near recompiling porting of commercial games. Suddenly all hell'd break loose and the SteamOS could offer 100% of their catalog (yeah I'm dreaming, but why not).

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