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Crowd-Funding Mesa Driver Development?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
    It used to be people would do this kind of thing, back in the 'golden age' of IT in Aus instead of buying OTS pre-packaged stuff that was a generic fit. People just did what was needed to get the job done. Good on ya!
    Thanks for the words of encouragement.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by tarceri View Post
      Well that goes for any Crowd-Funding project not just programming.
      Sorry, but I think it's not the same "any" Crowd-Funding project.
      In the case of Ubuntu Edge you have the support of a company like Canonical, risking its reputation if it fails. In another recently case when a developer asked for donations for GIMP project, the announcement was published in the official GIMP Google+ channel, which gives it a bit more seriousness to the request.
      If your donation request was supported by Mesa3D would be much better.
      Anyway I'm not judging you. I am proposing to discuss how we could do this more serious and viable, not only for your case but any other similar future case.

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      • #18
        With any crowd-funding campaign, one should follow the following rules.

        1. Is the amount asked for reasonable for the amount of work expected to be done?
        * Yes. He's asking for 2500 (indigo gets a cut for 10%, which means he'll get 2250) for doing 2 weeks of development. That would be equal to a $54,000/year pay which is high enough to support him and his family.

        2. Is it something you what to see accomplished?
        * Another GL extension implemented.
        * Updated documentation.
        * Proof that the users can help fund the development of the graphics stack.

        3. Do you think the person/group can do it?
        * Probably. I haven't looked at the spec, but others have and said it didn't look too complicated.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by YAFU View Post
          Sorry, but I think it's not the same "any" Crowd-Funding project.
          In the case of Ubuntu Edge you have the support of a company like Canonical, risking its reputation if it fails. In another recently case when a developer asked for donations for GIMP project, the announcement was published in the official GIMP Google+ channel, which gives it a bit more seriousness to the request.
          If your donation request was supported by Mesa3D would be much better.
          Ok I guess I can see the point you are making. I have no way of getting the Mesa guys support as I'm aiming for my first contribution hence the title of my campaign "Help me to become a Mesa contributor". I have provided in the about me section on indiegogo a link to my ohloh profile to try and prove my credibility. I'm also trying to be as open as possible in my campaign description as well as answering as many questions as I can.
          I'm not sure what else I can do other than that at this stage. While it might not mean much just like Canonical I too risk my reputation in the open source community if I fail since my name is publicly attached to the project.

          Originally posted by YAFU View Post
          Anyway I'm not judging you. I am proposing to discuss how we could do this more serious and viable, not only for your case but any other similar future case.
          Yes, you are right credibility is going to be an important part of any successful campaign.

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          • #20
            Donated 5 bucks. I hope the campaign succeeds despite not providing direct link to the campaign - it's pretty stupid.

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            • #21
              I could totally get behind this if someone like Keith Packard did - sort of that, why do I trust that my money will go towards Xorg/Wayland/Mesa?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by bakgwailo View Post
                I could totally get behind this if someone like Keith Packard did - sort of that, why do I trust that my money will go towards Xorg/Wayland/Mesa?
                Isn't Packard already working fulltime (paid) on the graphics stack? If so, what exactly would a campaign like this accomplish?

                Remember that not only will this money help tarceri implement the extension, but he will also get to get very familiar with Mesa,
                might even write some documentation/blogs about how to get into Mesa development as a beginner, and might continue to work
                on other stuff in his spare time with his gained knowledge.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by ua=42 View Post
                  With any crowd-funding campaign, one should follow the following rules.

                  1. Is the amount asked for reasonable for the amount of work expected to be done?
                  2. Is it something you what to see accomplished?
                  3. Do you think the person/group can do it?
                  To which I'd add:

                  4. Is the objective clearly defined?

                  That is, is there a measurable outcome by which the funders can judge whether their money is well spent? With other funding projects, that might be something like a device hitting the market, a book being printed and shipped to funders, or the purchase of new medical equipment for a local childrens hospital.

                  In this case, I'm not seeing that. There's no actual goal - just an intent to use the money to allow someone to spend some time doing some work on Mesa. And while that might be admirable, I don't see it as the basis of a crowd-sourcing campaign. It's too vague, with no actual deliverables.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                    To which I'd add:

                    4. Is the objective clearly defined?

                    That is, is there a measurable outcome by which the funders can judge whether their money is well spent? With other funding projects, that might be something like a device hitting the market, a book being printed and shipped to funders, or the purchase of new medical equipment for a local childrens hospital.

                    In this case, I'm not seeing that. There's no actual goal - just an intent to use the money to allow someone to spend some time doing some work on Mesa. And while that might be admirable, I don't see it as the basis of a crowd-sourcing campaign. It's too vague, with no actual deliverables.
                    I think he is quite clear. The deliverable is GL_KHR_debug extension.

                    The bonus is +1 possible mesa developer. I guess Timothy will create new funding campaigns to implement other missing functionality if this one works out.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by log0 View Post
                      I think he is quite clear. The deliverable is GL_KHR_debug extension.

                      The bonus is +1 possible mesa developer. I guess Timothy will create new funding campaigns to implement other missing functionality if this one works out.
                      Except that he's not promising to deliver a perfect, fully-implemented extension. He's simply promising to spend two weeks working full-time on it, delivering whatever happens to be done by the end of that period (and with stretch goals that basically amount to additional weeks of work as funding permits).

                      And that's a good thing, but I just don't think it's a good match for crowd-sourcing. This isn't a criticism of Timothy - it's just that I'd be very reluctant to put money into any project that didn't have specific deliverables at the end, and "two weeks labor by an inexperienced contributor" is just too uncertain for me.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                        To which I'd add:

                        4. Is the objective clearly defined?

                        That is, is there a measurable outcome by which the funders can judge whether their money is well spent? With other funding projects, that might be something like a device hitting the market, a book being printed and shipped to funders, or the purchase of new medical equipment for a local childrens hospital.

                        In this case, I'm not seeing that. There's no actual goal - just an intent to use the money to allow someone to spend some time doing some work on Mesa. And while that might be admirable, I don't see it as the basis of a crowd-sourcing campaign. It's too vague, with no actual deliverables.
                        Hi there, so I know if I need to clarify my goal description did you read my campaign page: http://igg.me/p/475220/x/2053460 or did you just read the Phoronix article?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                          Except that he's not promising to deliver a perfect, fully-implemented extension. He's simply promising to spend two weeks working full-time on it, delivering whatever happens to be done by the end of that period (and with stretch goals that basically amount to additional weeks of work as funding permits).

                          And that's a good thing, but I just don't think it's a good match for crowd-sourcing. This isn't a criticism of Timothy - it's just that I'd be very reluctant to put money into any project that didn't have specific deliverables at the end, and "two weeks labor by an inexperienced contributor" is just too uncertain for me.
                          From indiegogo project page:
                          If I have not fully implemented the extension in those two weeks I will continue to work on it in my spare time until it is completed

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ancurio View Post
                            Isn't Packard already working fulltime (paid) on the graphics stack? If so, what exactly would a campaign like this accomplish?

                            Remember that not only will this money help tarceri implement the extension, but he will also get to get very familiar with Mesa,
                            might even write some documentation/blogs about how to get into Mesa development as a beginner, and might continue to work
                            on other stuff in his spare time with his gained knowledge.
                            That was my sentiment as well. With this now garnering a boost to exposure via Phoronix in addition to indiegogo, it ultimately might inspire more people to see that there are actually ways and opportunities for developers, experienced or aspiring, to work on the open-fields of sourcey goodness. At least on a per-item basis. At the very least, they can have a paid leave from their existing job and be paid to do something they quite likely wish they could, but couldn't find the time, as tarceri has mentioned numerous times. Whatever flaots your boat. Money is a great incentive to motivate people to action when community jsut can't put food on the table.

                            Even if this falls through this time, I hope the negatives are addressed positively and he tries again, maybe with even more publicity so this kind of thing takes off. I personally am quite pissed off with the IT attitude in Australia. 'It's not MS/Apple? Are you nucking futs!?'; They change their opinions bloody quick when I show them 9 concurrent video's playing on compiz and fancy fluff like a rotating cube with their children for a background the rest of us have come to disable.

                            Keep it up mate. Nothing's worse than having a boring arse job stuck in a f-ing cubicle =D

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bakgwailo View Post
                              I could totally get behind this if someone like Keith Packard did - sort of that, why do I trust that my money will go towards Xorg/Wayland/Mesa?
                              This seems to be the biggest concern people have. I still have 29 days to earn some trust from those with concerns so I think I will at least try to get some patches into the public domain that setup the basics of the extension. Basically some skeleton code that will later be fleashed out if funding is successful.

                              Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
                              Except that he's not promising to deliver a perfect, fully-implemented extension. He's simply promising to spend two weeks working full-time on it, delivering whatever happens to be done by the end of that period (and with stretch goals that basically amount to additional weeks of work as funding permits).

                              And that's a good thing, but I just don't think it's a good match for crowd-sourcing. This isn't a criticism of Timothy - it's just that I'd be very reluctant to put money into any project that didn't have specific deliverables at the end, and "two weeks labor by an inexperienced contributor" is just too uncertain for me.
                              Thanks for the feedback, I can understand your concerns. I guess the only argument I have for you is that I have said that if I dont finish it after the two weeks I will continue to work on it until it accepted upstream although obviously at a slower pace.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by tarceri View Post
                                This seems to be the biggest concern people have. I still have 29 days to earn some trust from those with concerns so I think I will at least try to get some patches into the public domain that setup the basics of the extension. Basically some skeleton code that will later be fleashed out if funding is successful.



                                Thanks for the feedback, I can understand your concerns. I guess the only argument I have for you is that I have said that if I dont finish it after the two weeks I will continue to work on it until it accepted upstream although obviously at a slower pace.
                                Best of luck. I donated and I hope the campaign goes well. We need more developers working on the open graphics stack.

                                Comment

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