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  • #16
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    I hate playing quoting games... So I'm not going to do it with you. If you consider quoting games a skill, then consider yourself skillful.
    quoting games?? lol. - Technically, it's called providing citations ~ which is usually what you do, when you want to back up a comment with facts to support them ~ Apperently, your lacking a bit of education on the subject?? no game here, other than by you :\

    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    You have to understand how wine rates playability before you can spout off with that nonsense. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. Needless to say that things -have- -in fact- gotten much better in the last 2-3 years. I don't need or want to pay a commercial service to tweak wine with game specific optimizations. Games should "just work". And wine -is- getting much better at "just work"ing. And I hate to burst your bubble but wine doesnt work on bare metal. There is a very expensive translation from d3d to ogl. Even ogl to ogl is reasonably expensive.
    I know how Wine works, i know all about the appDB, am familiar with wine's internals and hack on wine weekly, thank you very much ~ i am sure i know more about it than you and have been using it as long (or much longer even) than you. I hate to burst your bubble, but i never said wine works on bare metal (although in comparison to running WinXP + game in VM, Wine is a hell of a lot less emulated, even with d3d->opengl)...

    I hate to have to tell you this again - learn to fscking read -> i was referring to VGA passthrough with those comments on 'bare metal' and speed / being faster NOT Wine. And in your case of trying to run a game in a VM - yeah, faster in that context (ie: VGA passthrough) is pretty critical...

    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    And faster is rarely better. If I'm able to play my games at max settings with my monitors max resolution at 60FPS, then who cares if it can run faster? Just with the last release of wine Star Trek Online became playable for the first time ever, and it plays maxed out. So who cares if it can run faster? It's -already- playing maxed out.
    again, please learn to comprehend what you have read, before replying. Niether of us were referring to Wine with the faster is better comments - we were referring to VMs, specficially - and how you came to any other conclusion, i do not understand, at all.

    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    You can claim that I'm wrong, but I'm not. It is -in fact- a fact that wine does play games better that virtualbox. I'm not wrong on that. It is -in fact- a fact that wine gaming has improved tremendously in the last 2-3 years. So much so that many games are becoming playable for the first time ever without requiring special tweaks or customizations. No need for Transgaming. No need for Cedega. I absolutely refuse to pay to play.
    Again, learn how to read properly. I know Wine plays games better than Virtualbox and told you exactly that, in my very first comment... - so NO, you are not wrong on that, but yeah, you are totally wrong thinking that i said games in Wine didn't play as well as in VM...lol ~ go back and read my comment.
    Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013, 07:45 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ninez View Post
      quoting games?? lol. - Technically, it's called providing citations ~ which is usually what you do, when you want to back up a comment with facts to support them ~ Apperently, your lacking a bit of education on the subject?? no game here, other than by you :\



      I know how Wine works, i know all about the appDB, am familiar with wine's internals and hack on wine weekly, thank you very much ~ i am sure i know more about it than you and have been using it as long (or much longer even) than you. I hate to burst your bubble, but i never said wine works on bare metal (although in comparison to running WinXP + game in VM, Wine is a hell of a lot less emulated, even with d3d->opengl)...

      I hate to have to tell you this again - learn to fscking read -> i was referring to VGA passthrough with those comments on 'bare metal' and speed / being faster NOT Wine. And in your case of trying to run a game in a VM - yeah, faster in that context (ie: VGA passthrough) is pretty critical...



      again, please learn to comprehend what you have read, before replying. Niether of us were referring to Wine with the faster is better comments - we were referring to VMs, specficially - and how you came to any other conclusion, i do not understand, at all.



      Again, learn how to read properly. I know Wine plays games better than Virtualbox and told you exactly that, in my very first comment... - so NO, you are not wrong on that, but yeah, you are totally wrong thinking that i said games in Wine didn't play as well as in VM...lol ~ go back and read my comment.
      As you can plainly see I quoted your entire post. I didnt edit it and I didnt selectively take shit out of context. I refuse to play quoting games. I'll quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you don't like it that way then, Oh well....

      First of all I never said that virtualbox was designed for gaming. I don't know where you got that idea from? I had thought originally it was because I used wine as a comparison for gaming. You must have taken that out of context to mean that I said virtualbox was somehow made for gaming. If -you- actually read what I wrote you'll see that I never said that. Hence the whole wine discussion.

      Second I'm not willing to dedicate a second gpu to a VM. I think the idea of emulating a GPU effectively is attractive on multiple levels. (edit: If it is eventually capable of playing the games I need it to play at the settings and resolutions I need it to play at, then I don't see how faster could possibly be better. You can't change my mind on that....)

      Oh and one other thing..... I before E except after C.
      Last edited by duby229; 06-20-2013, 08:00 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        As you can plainly see I quoted your entire post. I didnt edit it and I didnt selectively take shit out of context. I refuse to play quoting games. I'll quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you don't like it that way then, Oh well....
        it is common to both provide citations AND break down someone's comments into sections to answer specific points - that does not equal ' quote games'. sorry but no dice. I pointed out some inaccuracies using citations and answered each part of your comment - that isn't playing games - stopping being a half-whit.

        EDIT: i'd also like you to point out in comment #16 where i have quote-mined, omitted parts of your comment, etc. ~ i did no such thing. i broke your comment into 4 parts omitting NOTHING... I didn't take anything out of context, but yeah, in another post i only answered the part i was interested in commenting on (again, common way to answer/quote in a forum... ie: i shouldn't have to quote an entire post to answer one small part. there was no quote-mining or games whatsoever). Do yourself a favor and stop with this nonsense. Quoting in entirety actually is a poorer way of responding to someone's comments ~ since it may or may not be apparent which part of your comment they are responding to.

        but i do understand why you are 'running with' this notion of 'quoting-games' - you obviously did not take it kindly that i pointed out a slew of inaccuracies in your comments; my advice - grow up.

        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        First of all I never said that virtualbox was designed for gaming. I don't know where you got that idea from? I had thought originally it was because I used wine as a comparison for gaming. You must have taken that out of context to mean that I said virtualbox was somehow made for gaming. If -you- actually read what I wrote you'll see that I never said that. Hence the whole wine discussion.
        again, you have poor reading comprehension - i never said that *you said* that vbox was designed for gaming - *I said* it wasn't designed for that - there is an obvious difference here. again, take time to understand someone's comment before responding. I took nothing out of context. You said;

        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        The majority of games are still unplayable in virtualbox so hopefullly this new driver, however it works out, will improve the situation so that more games are playable. Wine is proving to be better for playing windows games than virtualbox.
        yeah, you are talking about Virtualbox as a possible way to play your games (in the not-so-distant-future due to this new driver). But even with this new driver Vbox still will not be suitable for that, as far as VMs, you need VGA passthrough.

        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        Second I'm not willing to dedicate a second gpu to a VM. I think the idea of emulating a GPU effectively is attractive on multiple levels. (edit: If it is eventually capable of playing the games I need it to play at the settings and resolutions I need it to play at, then I don't see how faster could possibly be better. You can't change my mind on that....)
        You will not eventually be able to play games in a VM without a more direct line to the H/W (ie: the faster is better part aka: VGA passthrough).... and i don't have to change your mind on that, it's just a fact.


        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        Oh and one other thing..... I before E except after C.
        I'm a bit dyslectic, i probably just didn't notice the switch, otherwise i would have corrected it. But just a tip - correcting me on spelling is fine and good ~ but next time put more energy into actually understanding what someone has written (before responding), rather than focusing on their spelling. (if you can't do them both at the same time -which apparently you can't).
        Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013, 08:44 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          8 years ago wine couldnt even start desktop applications, let alone fullscreen 3d games. That pleasure has only been possible in the last 2-3 years. Getting better now. It seems like every 3rd release compatibility improves and more and more of my game collection is becoming playable.
          My experience has been exactly the opposite of this; in the past 2-3 years I've struggled to get anything working in Wine, but eight years ago I used things like FL Studio and full screen games like Age of Empires 2 and Unreal Tournament in Wine just fine.

          This year I've sunk countless hours in trying to get these things working again, with very little success.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ninez View Post
            it is common to both provide citations AND break down someone's comments into sections to answer specific points - that does not equal ' quote games'. sorry but no dice. I pointed out some inaccuracies using citations and answered each part of your comment - that isn't playing games - stopping being a half-whit.



            again, you have poor reading comprehension - i never said that *you said* that vbox was designed for gaming - *I said* it wasn't designed for that - there is an obvious difference here. again, take time to understand someone's comment before responding. I took nothing out of context. You said;



            yeah, you are talking about Virtualbox as a possible way to play your games (in the not-so-distant-future due to this new driver). But even with this new driver Vbox still will not be suitable for that, as far as VMs, you need VGA passthrough.



            You will not eventually be able to play games in a VM without a more direct line to the H/W (ie: the faster is better part aka: VGA passthrough).... and i don't have to change your mind on that, it's just a fact.




            I'm a bit dyslectic, i probably just didn't notice the switch, otherwise i would have corrected it. But just a tip - correcting me on spelling is fine and good ~ but next time put more energy into actually understanding what someone has written (before responding), rather than focusing on their spelling. (if you can't do them both at tyhe same time -which apparently you can't).
            It's not going to happen. I will not play these quoting games with you. I'll continue to quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you arent capable of comprehending what I wrote in the context that it was written in, then that is your fault not mine. In the mean time you can continue to make your attempts to take what I said out of context by jumbling my posts together in whatever order you think you can fuck up the context in. But I refuse to stoop to that level.

            You said that virtualbox wasnt designed for gaming in response to my post! What other context is there to take that in? No duh. I never said that it was. I'm pretty sure it's obvious that windows applications including games were designed to be run on windows running on hardware. That much is plainly obvious and needs no explanation. What do you suppose the point of a virtual machine is then? I can think of one usage that definitely deserves attention... GAMING!! Yes... And in this case a solid virtual GPU is a definite requirement... Which if you took the time to notice that is the ENTIRE point of the article we are responding to.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by psychoticmeow View Post
              My experience has been exactly the opposite of this; in the past 2-3 years I've struggled to get anything working in Wine, but eight years ago I used things like FL Studio and full screen games like Age of Empires 2 and Unreal Tournament in Wine just fine.

              This year I've sunk countless hours in trying to get these things working again, with very little success.
              Yeah, I can't get Baldurs Gate 2 to work anymore. But alot of games are becoming more playable. Just this last release Star Trek Online became playable. CivV improved a ton, but is still unplayable due to missing ground textures. Overall though I have to say that I'm reasonably impressed.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                It's not going to happen. I will not play these quoting games with you. I'll continue to quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you arent capable of comprehending what I wrote in the context that it was written in, then that is your fault not mine. In the mean time you can continue to make your attempts to take what I said out of context by jumbling my posts together in whatever order you think you can fuck up the context in. But I refuse to stoop to that level.
                lol. you are retarded bud. I took nothing out of context, only pointed out falsehoods and inaccuracies... grow up. EDIT: i didn't reorder any of your comments either. Making fallacious claims just makes you look like a baby. I'm sorry that you don't like when people point out your mistakes, but again. grow up and get over it.

                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                You said that virtualbox wasnt designed for gaming in response to my post! What other context is there to take that in? No duh. I never said that it was. I'm pretty sure it's obvious that windows applications including games were designed to be run on windows running on hardware. That much is plainly obvious and needs no explanation. What do you suppose the point of a virtual machine is then? I can think of one usage that definitely deserves attention... GAMING!! Yes... And in this case a solid virtual GPU is a definite requirement... Which if you took the time to notice that is the ENTIRE point of the article we are responding to.
                Again, learn to read and comprehend what someone has written -> Exactly, I never claimed that *you said* that Vbox was designed for gaming; *I said* it wasn't... What i originally did say was; "Neither Virtualbox nor VMware are suitable for gaming, nor will they be anytime soon." The other so-called context to take my comment is simple - Vbox wasn't designed with gaming in mind, so it doesn't handle that situation very well at all. even this GPU driver discussed in the article, will NOT do the job. period. <- Is this too hard of a concept for you to understand??? ...lol. no, instead you draw some dumb conclusion based on your own lack of insights that has no bearing on reality, nor what i actually wrote.

                next, VMs have a ton of purposes (development, testing, access/supporting to legacy software/OS, access to software not available in host OS, portability, etc) and the point of the article was 3D acceleration, not gaming specifically. I hate to have to point out something really obvious; 3d acceleration and gaming aren't the same thing. 3d acceleration has lots of uses... More likely the importance of having proper 3d acceleration is to be able to run OS/Desktops that require it, properly. (since most modern OSes, generally do). Gaming had nothing to do with this Vbox GPU driver news, nor is it probably a motivation for Oracle.
                Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013, 09:16 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ninez View Post
                  lol. you are retarded bud. I took nothing out of context, only pointed out falsehoods and inaccuracies... grow up. EDIT: i didn't reorder any of your comments either. Making fallacious claims just makes you look like a baby. I'm sorry that you don't like when people point out your mistakes, but again. grow up and get over it.



                  Again, learn to read and comprehend what someone has written -> Exactly, I never claimed that *you said* that Vbox was designed for gaming; *I said* it wasn't... What i originally did say was; "Neither Virtualbox nor VMware are suitable for gaming, nor will they be anytime soon." The other so-called context to take my comment is simple - Vbox wasn't designed with gaming in mind, so it doesn't handle that situation very well at all. even this GPU driver discussed in the article, will NOT do the job. period. <- Is this too hard of a concept for you to understand??? ...lol. no, instead you draw some dumb conclusion based on your own lack of insights that has no bearing on reality, nor what i actually wrote.

                  next, VMs have a ton of purposes (development, testing, access/supporting to legacy software/OS, access to software not available in host OS, portability, etc) and the point of the article was 3D acceleration, not gaming specifically. I hate to have to point out something really obvious; 3d acceleration and gaming aren't the same thing. 3d acceleration has lots of uses... More likely the importance of having proper 3d acceleration is to be able to run OS/Desktops that require it, properly. (since most modern OSes, generally do). Gaming had nothing to do with this Vbox GPU driver news, nor is it probably a motivation for Oracle.
                  I never said virtualbox was designed for gaming. Trying to explain simple concepts to you is like arguing with a brick wall. Read the article. It is about virtual GPU. One obvious usage for that is gaming. Duh.

                  EDIT: All I can say at this point, is thank -GOD- that you are not in a position to influence gaming on linux. All of us gamers would be fucked if you were.

                  EDIT2: You said that virtualbox wasnt designed for gaming... You said that in response to my post.... What else do you expect that to mean? Maybe your native language has no concept of innuendo, implication, context, but in English it means quite a bit, and the innuendo that you put forth clearly has meaning. If -you- arent capable of comprehending what -you- wrote then maybe you should just stop.

                  EDIT3: Maybe you should just wait for the code to release and try it out for yourself before you make baseless claims of what it can and cannot do.
                  Last edited by duby229; 06-20-2013, 09:32 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by psychoticmeow View Post
                    My experience has been exactly the opposite of this; in the past 2-3 years I've struggled to get anything working in Wine, but eight years ago I used things like FL Studio and full screen games like Age of Empires 2 and Unreal Tournament in Wine just fine.
                    I can run FLstudio in Wine, i did so earlier this year while doing some testing. I was able to run it as both Standalone (.exe) but i actually got much better performance out of FSThost, running FL Studio as a VST plugin. This was during 1.5.2x series; http://a.fsdn.com/con/app/proj/l-pro...io_FSThost.png. I haven't tried it with 1.6-rc2 (my patched version of wine) but i would assume it would work as well or better than in January when i was testing FL studio out.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by phoen1x View Post
                      LOL, no kidding? That was obvious like ~8 year ago.
                      Eight years ago some games had issues with being run under Wine and Wine has come a long way since that time even and will get even better in the future so then we'd be able to dump Windows entirely.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                        I never said virtualbox was designed for gaming. Trying to explain simple concepts to you is like arguing with a brick wall. Read the article. It is about virtual GPU. One obvious usage for that is gaming. Duh.
                        i know, i've told you a slew of times - I - NEVER -SAID - THAT - YOU - DID... i said it wasn't, implying that's why gaming is so poor and why VGA passthrough is necessary... Secondly, gaming is NOT an obvious usage ~ having h/w acceleration for a desktop environment is. Do you honestly think Oracle gives a crap about gaming in Virtualbox? do you honestly think that is their motivation and what their *paying" customers are after??? ~ hint: Oracle's business with Virtualbox is not gaming ~ that should be fscking obvious, dumb ass.

                        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                        EDIT: All I can say at this point, is thank -GOD- that you are not in a position to influence gaming on linux. All of us gamers would be fucked if you were.
                        I wouldn't be interested in that to begin with. And frankly, if i was - i would want pure native anyway. transgaming, VMs, etc are hacky, crappy way of doing things to begin with (for this kind of thing).

                        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                        EDIT2: You said that virtualbox wasnt designed for gaming... You said that in response to my post.... What else do you expect that to mean? Maybe your native language has no concept of innuendo, implication, context, but in English it means quite a bit, and the innuendo that you put forth clearly has meaning. If -you- arent capable of comprehending what -you- wrote then maybe you should just stop.
                        ..or i was just pointing out that Vbox's architecture wasn't designed for that... Sorry, but you are jumping to conclusions based on your own assumptions, nothing more. Sorry but your conclusions are bogus.

                        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                        EDIT3: Maybe you should just wait for the code to release and try it out for yourself before you make baseless claims of what it can and cannot do.
                        They aren't baseless claims, VMware destroys Vbox and it's (more advanced) gpu drivers can't handle it either. I also have a friend with a Xen setup + VGA passthrough ~ it does work fairly well. As you've been told, you really need VGA passthrough in the case of a VM for intensive games. You need the native drivers + direct access to the H/W. it's that simple.
                        Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013, 09:48 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ninez View Post
                          i know, i've told you a slew of times - I - NEVER -SAID - THAT - YOU - DID... i said it wasn't, implying that's why gaming is so poor and why VGA passthrough is necessary... Secondly, gaming is NOT an obvious usage ~ having h/w acceleration for a desktop environment is. Do you honestly think Oracle gives a crap about gaming in Virtualbox? do you honestly think that is their motivation and what their *paying" customers are after??? ~ hint: Oracle's business with Virtualbox is not gaming ~ that should be fscking obvious, dumb ass.



                          I wouldn't be interested in that to begin with. And frankly, if i was - i would want pure native anyway. transgaming, VMs, etc are hacky, crappy way of doing things to begin with (for this kind of thing).



                          ..or i was just pointing out that Vbox's architecture wasn't designed for that... Sorry, but you are jumping to conclusions based on your own assumptions, nothing more. Sorry but your conclusions are bogus.



                          They aren't baseless claims, VMware destroys Vbox and it's (more advanced) gpu drivers can't handle it either. I also have a friend with a Xen setup + VGA passthrough ~ it does work fairly well. As you've been told, you really need VGA passthrough in the case of a VM for intensive games. You need the native drivers + direct access to the H/W. it's that simple.
                          I really hope that this code comes out kickin' ass and stomping through games. I can't wait to revisit this thread.

                          How many more time do I have to say this.... I NEVER SAID IT WAS DESIGNED FOR GAMING DUMBASS.... It doesnt have to be. It just has to support a functional proper virtual GPU with decent performance. It doesnt have to be the fastest solution. It just has to be a playable solution..
                          Last edited by duby229; 06-20-2013, 09:55 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                            I really hope that this code comes out kickin' ass and stomping through games. I can't wait to revisit this thread.
                            You're going to be waiting a long time, have fun with that.

                            Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                            I
                            How many more time do I have to say this.... I NEVER SAID IT WAS DESIGNED FOR GAMING DUMBASS.... It doesnt have to be. It just has to support a functional proper virtual GPU with decent performance. It doesnt have to be the fastest solution. It just has to be a playable solution..
                            HILARIOUS!!! did you not read what i wrote; "I - NEVER - SAID - THAT - YOU - DID" ~ you replied to this comment, asking how many more times you have to say that you never said it was designed for gaming?!?!?... holy crap, LEARN TO READ *or* do not respond at all...fsking moron, straight up. Seriously, i can't believe you would quote my comment where i clearly stated that you didn't say that... are you retarded?? I've said this multiple times now, how many more times do i have to write it out, before you get it?!?!?!

                            I never claimed that you said that Virtualbox was designed for gaming.
                            I never claimed that you said that Virtualbox was designed for gaming.
                            I never claimed that you said that Virtualbox was designed for gaming.
                            I never claimed that you said that Virtualbox was designed for gaming.... Does this help you, moron?
                            Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013, 10:10 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ninez View Post
                              You're going to be waiting a long time, have fun with that.
                              If it isnt virtualbox then it will be vmware, or xen, or qemu. Somebody will come up with something, and when they do, I'll be the first to throw this thread right back in your face.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                                If it isnt virtualbox then it will be vmware, or xen, or qemu. Somebody will come up with something, and when they do, I'll be the first to throw this thread right back in your face.
                                they already have it's called VGA passthrough.

                                EDIT: lolz lolz lolz lolz...

                                ...you gonna throw that back in my face or what? lolz.
                                Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013, 10:17 PM.

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