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  • #16
    Originally posted by asdx
    Agreed, we also need patents like ST3C to become invalid and integrate all that stuff into Mesa by default.
    S3TC is owned by HTC now. It's hard to know if they'll aggressively pursue users of this patent. HTC doesn't strike me as a particularly evil company, at least not on the scale of Oracle or Microsoft.

    Originally posted by asdx
    Why is this happening? How can we help with things?
    It's hard to know if the statistics reflect what's actually happening. For example, just ONE of the commits earlier this year pushed over 100,000 lines of code to get the ball rolling for HD7000 support -- which still isn't complete, but last I checked, you can successfully boot up a HD7000 in KMS mode, and use a 2D-only driver or llvmpipe to get working X.

    Originally posted by asdx
    Is Mesa being backed by companies like Canonical
    No.

    Originally posted by asdx
    Red Hat,
    Yes, very heavily. Much of the grunt work of supporting recent AMD GPUs is thanks to Red Hat. They also help out Intel on their driver, they also work on old GPUs and server GPU chipsets for KMS support, and they also help with the overall architecture. Also, one of their employees, Dave Airlie, is the "chief" for the DRM (direct rendering manager) subsystem of the kernel, which basically means that he is one "rank" removed from Linus Torvalds in terms of decision-making power about what does or does not go into the Linux kernel's open source graphics drivers. Dave's task in that role is to take all the DRM-related patches, review them, and determine whether they are really ready for mainline. That way, ideally, Linus Torvalds never sees graphics code that's totally atrocious and untested and bad.

    Oh, wait. Except that he does. Remember the "UNTESTED CRAP" fiasco?

    Originally posted by asdx
    etc?
    Yes, the "etc" role is quite significant. Don't forget VMware, which is the company that bought up Tungsten Graphics. Tungsten is the company that originally designed the Gallium3d architecture, which is being used by all open source graphics drivers except for Intel's. The one guy who initially started the Mesa project way back in the 90s, Brian Paul, now works for VMware.

    A lot of people who are either unaffiliated with a company, or working for some small business, are significant contributors to Mesa and/or the DRM stack. While a "majority" of the work may be done by large enterprises such as Intel, VMware and Red Hat, the individual / small business contributor is a huge part of Mesa.

    Originally posted by asdx
    Who are the major Mesa contributors?
    I'm going to widen your question to include the entire open source graphics stack, which includes Xorg, libdrm, the DRM kernel subsystem, and Mesa.

    In the approximate descending order by level of commitment (first one is most committed/best contributor IMHO): Red Hat, VMware, Intel, AMD, a few dedicated people who are unemployed or whose day job is unrelated to graphics drivers, Google, PathScale, Oracle, Apple, IBM, and a "long tail" of people from various companies and individuals who have between 1 and 10 commits (in other words, not a whole lot).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
      a few dedicated people who are unemployed or whose day job is unrelated to graphics drivers
      "At school" sounds better than "unemployed". The most common pattern is "working on open source drivers is more interesting than finishing my doctoral thesis"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        "At school" sounds better than "unemployed". The most common pattern is "working on open source drivers is more interesting than finishing my doctoral thesis"
        I find it worrying that you say this the day after I start reading an OpenGL book and clone the xf86-video-ati and mesa repositories...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by archibald View Post
          I find it worrying that you say this the day after I start reading an OpenGL book and clone the xf86-video-ati and mesa repositories...
          :O!

          Archibald! The next great Mesa committer!

          Marek! Alex! You must capture him, before he sneaks away...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by asdx
            Red Hat, Intel, VMware and AMD should sue the hell out of HTC over that fucking ST3C patent.
            Hmmm, no.

            But seeing as HTC likes to make android-devices maybe they should approach them asking if they can have a no-suing-over-this/these-patents-aggreement for the good of the Linux ecosystem. I think it would be a win for HTC too.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by asdx
              Red Hat, Intel, VMware and AMD should sue the hell out of HTC over that fucking ST3C patent.
              On what grounds? It's easier just to build your own mesa (not that I enable S3TC in my builds because I live in America and that would be illegal...).

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DanL View Post
                On what grounds? It's easier just to build your own mesa (not that I enable S3TC in my builds because I live in America and that would be illegal...).
                So just because it might illegal, you don't do it?
                In some countries it is illegal to be gay, in some countries it is illegal for women to drive, some countries saying certain things is illegal.

                Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
                Do what you feel is right as long as it does not harm anyone.

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                • #23
                  (not that I enable S3TC in my builds because I live in America and that would be illegal...)
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                  So just because it might illegal, you don't do it?
                  An ellipsis in such statements is the textual equivalent of whistling and looking at the ceiling.

                  However, I'm sure that's not the case here... :-)
                  Last edited by archibald; 06-26-2012, 01:31 PM. Reason: added initial quote

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by archibald View Post
                    An ellipsis in such statements is the textual equivalent of whistling and looking at the ceiling. However, I'm sure that's not the case here... :-)
                    Exactly

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                    • #25
                      And because some (or many) laws are stupid it means that you have to surrender yourself to stupidity

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by asdx
                        Fuck software patents. Why don't you guys living in the US vote against that fucking shit? Don't you folks have a say with things like that?

                        The whole world has to suffer because of the idiotic laws in USA.
                        How many Americans do you think have ever heard of "software patents" ?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by asdx
                          Fuck software patents. Why don't you guys living in the US vote against that fucking shit? Don't you folks have a say with things like that?

                          The whole world has to suffer because of the idiotic laws in USA.
                          No, we don't have a say in things like that. We live in a false democracy which is actually a totalitarian state run by a few rich men. All of them unanimously want to continue with software patents.

                          In fact, I can't think of any elected official who has ever uttered the words "software patents". If they did, they'd probably be against them, but since everyone in office "plays dumb" about all that technolergy-stuff, it's simply not discussed. They ignore them because it's an inconvenient issue. Even if we elected other people, they wouldn't be able to get elected by campaigning to get rid of software patents. Too many people would either say "oh no, don't do that, Microsoft would go bankrupt!" or they would say "huh? what's software? why are you worrying about that meaningless shit instead of giving me a bigger paycheck?"

                          That's really what it comes down to these days for most people: they will vote for whoever promises to give them a bigger paycheck, more job security, or a job in the first place. Obviously there's no correlation between politicians promising bigger paychecks (less taxes) and politicians promising to obliterate software patents, so it'll never happen.
                          Last edited by allquixotic; 06-27-2012, 07:21 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by asdx
                            Fuck software patents. Why don't you guys living in the US vote against that fucking shit? Don't you folks have a say with things like that?

                            The whole world has to suffer because of the idiotic laws in USA.
                            Considering here in Canada the Harper government just passed their new copyright law which is in many ways worse than the DMCA I think you may be being a little too hard on the yanks by stating that such problems are their fault exclusively...

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by asdx
                              What I never understood is why developments like Mesa doesn't happen outside of the US, like in some countries in Europe where US laws doesn't apply.

                              Wouldn't that make sense? Wouldn't that prevent Mesa developers from being sued over the ST3C patents if they decide to incorporate ST3C by default in Mesa?
                              The general consensus of the Mesa developers is to try and code to the "lowest common denominator", which means they need to take into account the needs of people (especially statistically-significant proportions of their user base, such as USAians) who use their software. They can't just distribute to Europe only. Japan respects U.S. patent law BTW. as do many other countries.

                              Also the distros that distribute compiled binary code, their situation is even more grim because it's much more likely that a for-profit company (whether or not they sell the distro for money) would be sued for patent infringement by distributing S3TC codecs etc.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by asdx
                                Fuck software patents. Why don't you guys living in the US vote against that fucking shit? Don't you folks have a say with things like that?

                                The whole world has to suffer because of the idiotic laws in USA.
                                We have the same amount of say that you do about getting your government to ignore those laws from the US. The whole world only has to suffer if they agree - it's not like we're invading countries and shooting people who refuse.

                                Which is to say, theoretically, we can tell our governments what to do. But realistically this issue is backed by huge amounts of money and you and I don't have enough to compete with that.

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