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It's Official: Mesa 8.0 With OpenGL 3.0

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  • #16
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    Wow, Linux is catching up with the technology which was released just 3,5 years ago (and I don't want even to mention Direct3D 10 which was released in 2006). Oh my goodness.
    I hope it goes without saying that most people don't even need OpenGL 3/4. The proprietary drivers provide that and I don't particularly care about provides them. None of the software I use needs it. I forecast that there is a 100% chance of not giving a rat's ass continuing for the next year. (if it even takes them that long).

    What even uses that crap aside from a couple of proprietary games and maybe some expensive proprietary software that I have no use for?

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    • #17
      Seriously, what is wrong with you people? (With all due respect to the rare exceptions like Veerappan.)
      There is a new milestone hit in an open-source software and everybody is like "who the fuck cares".

      While I can see why you think it's late, etc. you should still be greatful or stfu, at the very least.

      And I thought that it was just Micheal being depressed -- only negative headlines -- for over a months now.
      This is the typical mid/eastern-european attidute, which I'm not proud of, so please don't learn it!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by HokTar View Post
        Seriously, what is wrong with you people? (With all due respect to the rare exceptions like Veerappan.)
        There is a new milestone hit in an open-source software and everybody is like "who the fuck cares".

        While I can see why you think it's late, etc. you should still be greatful or stfu, at the very least.

        And I thought that it was just Micheal being depressed -- only negative headlines -- for over a months now.
        This is the typical mid/eastern-european attidute, which I'm not proud of, so please don't learn it!
        No, I'm glad that it is adding new features, I just don't have any burning need for them at this time. Any ground they gain on proprietary software that makes them more competitive for people who currently do need something that only the proprietary software provides, is of course a good thing.

        I didn't mean to come off as "I don't care", I do, just not personally.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
          I didn't mean to come off as "I don't care", I do, just not personally.
          So there's a care that's not personal? Is this all because no one likes OpenGL?

          If I understand things correctly, this nonchalant attitude has nothing to do with Mesa at all. Even if AMD released perfect, bug-free Catalyst drivers for OGL 3.0 with %400 performance increase or something ridiculous like that, the response would probably be the same. At least from this crowd.

          Here's my summary of responses here...

          The only purpose of openGL drivers for linux or any OS on a desktop system, is to accelerate their superior DirectX equivalents.

          Ouch.

          The level of inspiration here, is killing. You guys are lucky to have a kernel, let alone a 3D framework. Even bad musicians don't get this much heckling.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by jltyper View Post
            So there's a care that's not personal? Is this all because no one likes OpenGL?

            If I understand things correctly, this nonchalant attitude has nothing to do with Mesa at all. Even if AMD released perfect, bug-free Catalyst drivers for OGL 3.0 with %400 performance increase or something ridiculous like that, the response would probably be the same. At least from this crowd.

            Here's my summary of responses here...

            The only purpose of openGL drivers for linux or any OS on a desktop system, is to accelerate their superior DirectX equivalents.

            Ouch.

            The level of inspiration here, is killing. You guys are lucky to have a kernel, let alone a 3D framework. Even bad musicians don't get this much heckling.
            I don't use anything that requires DirectX, and don't have Wine. Hope that helps.

            And yes, I do hate OpenGL and DirectX. They're both overgrown and have to support too much legacy crap. OpenGL is not "open" enough, since it requires you to navigate a thicket of patents to implement it properly.
            Last edited by DaemonFC; 01-09-2012, 11:30 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
              overgrown and have to support too much legacy crap.
              That sort of generalization could be made for any software.
              I don't see how this relates specifically to DirectX or OpenGL.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by birdie View Post
                Wow, Linux is catching up with the technology which was released just 3,5 years ago (and I don't want even to mention Direct3D 10 which was released in 2006). Oh my goodness.
                Wow, you forgot Linux has also proprietary graphic drivers that are on pair with winblows ones.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Congratulations to all the people involved! Thanks for the hard work.

                  Though I doubt many sane developers would ever see that line above... They'd have to willingly:
                  - Go through the article that regurgitates links to past news posts, before writing 5 times as much about all the stuff "lacking"
                  - Read the comments that are for the most part similarly discouraging

                  What's wrong with saying "nice, keep it up guys!", you know, at least for ONCE?

                  If you have time to complain, you have time to fix things. Guess what's the smarter alternative?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by birdie View Post
                    Wow, Linux is catching up with the technology which was released just 3,5 years ago (and I don't want even to mention Direct3D 10 which was released in 2006). Oh my goodness.
                    Obvious troll is obvious. What are you doing on Linux-related site? Go away.

                    Mesa still doesn't have S3TC (S3 Texture Compression) support by default nor support for other features like floating-point textures since they are covered by patents.
                    Since those patents are owned by HTC now and HTC is a member of the Open Invention Network, they could be safely enabled by default on Linux. I guess, rather than disabling those features at all, Mesa devs should check at compiling whether the OS is Linux or not, and disabling them for non-Linux OSes.

                    Originally posted by devius View Post
                    This would be more meaningful if there was also S3TC support out-of-the-box but still a very important milestone indeed.
                    Currently it's just another reason to use Archlinux, it has S3TC support enabled by default.

                    Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
                    I hope it goes without saying that most people don't even need OpenGL 3/4. The proprietary drivers provide that and I don't particularly care about provides them. None of the software I use needs it. I forecast that there is a 100% chance of not giving a rat's ass continuing for the next year. (if it even takes them that long).

                    What even uses that crap aside from a couple of proprietary games and maybe some expensive proprietary software that I have no use for?
                    Linux devs are targetting the lowest common denominator among graphics drivers, and currently it's Mesa. As soon as OGL 3.0 support is in place, it's usage will go mainstream. I remember KDE devs speaking about using GL3 features in KWin a year ago, so it will quite likely happen this year, I guess. Same can be said about Direct3D. Because XP is still the most used Windows distro out there, game developers are using DX9 despite two newer versions being released already.

                    Judging by the work already done in Mesa for later GL 3.x revisions, we'll have GL 3.3 by the next year.

                    Originally posted by DaemonFC View Post
                    And yes, I do hate OpenGL and DirectX. They're both overgrown and have to support too much legacy crap. OpenGL is not "open" enough, since it requires you to navigate a thicket of patents to implement it properly.
                    I'm not sure that you know what you're talking about. I've used quite a few features of GL 3.2, namely vertex arrays, texture arrays and texture buffers. GL 3 makes graphics programming so much easier: create VBOs, create shaders, and let graphics card do wonders. How may GL be considered "overgrown" when they have simplified everything so much? And support for pre-3.x features is completely optional, that's why compatibility profiles are there, and it is implemented in driver rather than in specification itself.
                    Last edited by Reloaded211; 01-10-2012, 04:34 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sandain View Post
                      1997/10/02 + 20 years means we will not see this crap expire until 2017/10/02. I would be hoping for this patent to be marked invalid instead...
                      Well your hope is entirely misplaced. Learn something about how patents and patent law really work and you'll have a better understanding of why.

                      The chances of them being invalid are nil.

                      This is why it's fantastically important to fight patents and IP law whenever possible and stop giving money to corporations, like Apple or Nvidia, that are pro software patents.
                      Last edited by drag; 01-10-2012, 04:45 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Veerappan View Post
                        Congratulations are in order to all those who have been working on Mesa. It's been a lot of work to hit the 3.0 milestone, but we've gotten there (at least for intel, and hopefully not too long for some of the Gallium drivers).
                        It looks like a large amount of the work for 3.1 is already done, as well as some of 3.2, and a good amount of 3.3, so hopefully the next few versions will come quickly.
                        If nothing else, GL 3.0 will put GNU/Linux (and anyone else who uses Mesa + GEM/TTM + other necessary bits) ahead of Mac OS 10.7 for now.
                        +1. Well put.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Veerappan View Post
                          If nothing else, GL 3.0 will put GNU/Linux (and anyone else who uses Mesa + GEM/TTM + other necessary bits) ahead of Mac OS 10.7 for now.
                          I'm not sure about this one, it states 3.2 here.
                          However, this table seems to agree with you. Since both are from apple I don't know what to think now... :S

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                            Wow, you forgot Linux has also proprietary graphic drivers that are on pair with winblows ones.
                            I don't agree here.... The Windows Catalyst drivers for a lot of old AMD hardware is still available for an OS that's supported by Microsoft (Windows XP).. Those same Catalyst drivers (9.3) will *not* work on any modern Linux OS due to changes in the linux kernel and xserver. Because of this, I wouldn't say that the Catalyst Linux drivers are on par with the Windows ones at all because Microsoft supports their OS for 10 years and Linux distros only support their OS for 2 years.. You can still get Catalyst drivers for a supported OS if you run Windows, but that's not true if you run Linux.

                            Newer versions of Catalyst don't support my hardware.

                            Next month, Debian lenny gets dropped, so no more security updates.. The Catalyst 9.3 drivers won't work in Debian stable (or any other linux distro's current "stable")... If I switch the PC to Windows XP, I can still get my security updates and run Catalyst 9.3. If I switch to any newer Linux distribution with the open source drivers, I have to accept that I'm going to lose some graphics features like MSAA..



                            Because of the above, the open source drivers are very important.. The underlying Linux OS just isn't supported for long durations (10+ years)like Microsoft does with their service packs. So all developments in the Open source driver should be celebrated because the Proprietary drivers don't last very long if you're running Linux. Although I wished they put out MSAA support before they worked on OpenGL3, I'm sure the people that have OpenGL3 hardware that's about to have their Catalyst drivers retired by the hardware manuf.'s would beg to differ.

                            I think I'm pretty much SOL at this point.. If I upgrade to a new distro, I lose my MSAA and if I keep using an archived version of Debian then my PC is insecure.

                            P.S. I have much love for the Debian team.. If it weren't for them supporting their OS for so long, I would have been SOL two years ago instead of now. Peace.
                            Last edited by Sidicas; 01-10-2012, 09:16 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by drag View Post
                              Well your hope is entirely misplaced. Learn something about how patents and patent law really work and you'll have a better understanding of why.

                              The chances of them being invalid are nil.

                              This is why it's fantastically important to fight patents and IP law whenever possible and stop giving money to corporations, like Apple or Nvidia, that are pro software patents.
                              Oh wise sage drag, why don't you explain how you believe patents and patent law really work, because I obviously know jack squat.

                              The chance of US5956431 being marked as invalid is low considering the past history of this patent, however I would have to argue that the chance of this happening is not nil. The legal mess that is the smart phone industry is our best bet for this to happen.

                              I agree that software patents need to die, but I don't see patent reform going anywhere with the current political environment here in the US. Besides boycotting pro-software patent companies, how do you suggest we go about fighting software patents?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
                                I don't agree here.... The Windows Catalyst drivers for a lot of old AMD hardware is still available for an OS that's supported by Microsoft (Windows XP).. Those same Catalyst drivers (9.3) will *not* work on any modern Linux OS due to changes in the linux kernel and xserver. Because of this, I wouldn't say that the Catalyst Linux drivers are on par with the Windows ones at all because Microsoft supports their OS for 10 years and Linux distros only support their OS for 2 years.. You can still get Catalyst drivers for a supported OS if you run Windows, but that's not true if you run Linux.

                                Newer versions of Catalyst don't support my hardware.
                                I'm in the same situation, but keep in mind mesa drivers probably fully support our hardware. Furthermore, if Ubuntu 10.04 ships with catalyst 9.3 we still have support from AMD.

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