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Mesa Kills Old Hardware Support: No More 3dfx Voodoo

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  • #16
    I had an ATI rage pro that ran pretty well, after selling a GT240 for money - I didn't need such power given they are very few games worth running. but there was no 3D support already.

    I've had a radeon 7000 too, which did have OpenGL support : that only got used in vlc and zsnes!, as a workaround for abnormal 2D slowness and freezes. quake 3 / openarena was unplayable, and dark with the gamma correction not working. complete shit, you wouldn't get that result on windows 98 or XP.

    so in many cases, we're losing unusable or non existent 3D drivers.
    the 3dfx, I will miss. not the terrible support for voodoo2 (I wasted a few hours of my life), but the one for voodoo3 - I had openarena fly on it on ubuntu 8.04.

    funnily, I'm now running a 8400GS and the open source 3D driver was slow and bad (still that gamma bug). voodoo3 does run better despite considerably weaker hardware
    my only way out was, no suprise, nvidia binary driver.

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    • #17
      The 3dfx drivers were really buggy but usable. The Rage drivers worked with some applications but had time-out issues (according to Xorg.0.log) with others. There were graphics problems with some games like Neverball that appeared to be issues with GPU texture size limits. There were also the old problems with 3D acceleration supported only in specific bit depths.

      I'll miss the old i810 driver. It actually worked with i8xx integrated graphics, unlike the current drivers.

      Good riddance to Via and SiS drivers. I wouldn't use that junk with Windows either.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Med_ View Post
        Given that these drivers have not been maintained in years i would be surprised to suddenly see people stepping up to maintain them.
        I would say these drivers could be maintained out of the tree though, so maybe there might be a parallel 7.11 mesa-legacy branch for those old legacy drivers.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by jhansonxi View Post
          The 3dfx drivers were really buggy but usable. The Rage drivers worked with some applications but had time-out issues (according to Xorg.0.log) with others. There were graphics problems with some games like Neverball that appeared to be issues with GPU texture size limits. There were also the old problems with 3D acceleration supported only in specific bit depths.

          I'll miss the old i810 driver. It actually worked with i8xx integrated graphics, unlike the current drivers.

          Good riddance to Via and SiS drivers. I wouldn't use that junk with Windows either.
          maybe someone could fix those bugs to make them usable at least...the tdfx and ATI rage chips were pretty good for their time

          Keeping the S3 Savage drivers would be nice too, as several old laptops have these chips

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          • #20
            Time moves on!

            Still, I remember buying a 3dfx card just so I could play quake/q2/arena in Linux in undergrad. Fuck I'm getting old! ;-)

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            • #21
              If it makes you feel any better, I bought a 3DFx card so my *nephew* could play Q2...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Tgui View Post
                Time moves on!

                Still, I remember buying a 3dfx card just so I could play quake/q2/arena in Linux in undergrad. Fuck I'm getting old! ;-)
                I looked in my spare parts box and found a Creative Banshee 32MB VRAM 3dfx based card...that card still works so might build my "crap system" using an old Intel SE440BX board and 384MB RAM :-)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                  If it makes you feel any better, I bought a 3DFx card so my *nephew* could play Q2...
                  Well, at least you're good to your nephew!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
                    I looked in my spare parts box and found a Creative Banshee 32MB VRAM 3dfx based card...that card still works so might build my "crap system" using an old Intel SE440BX board and 384MB RAM :-)
                    I'm not sure I know where my old 3dfx card is, though I do puzzle over the 5 inch VGA patch cable every couple years or so when I come across it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by birdie View Post
                      Here's another instance of praised backwards compatibility in Linux.

                      Not enough man power? Ditch it!
                      If they don't work, removing them doesn't change compatibility at all.

                      Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
                      I would say these drivers could be maintained out of the tree though, so maybe there might be a parallel 7.11 mesa-legacy branch for those old legacy drivers.
                      Someone has already moved them into their own legacy branch. Whether they end up getting someone to maintain them is another thing entirely.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Med_ View Post
                        That means roughly 10% of loc vanished. That's a pretty impressive cleanup.
                        58+1336+35852+85811+8+885+2104+436+675+2035+16=129 216

                        100/(830969/129216)=15.5500385694

                        ~16% by Ian Romanick



                        And Marball Odyssey which coming to Linux use GL_EXT_paletted_texture/GL_OES_compressed_paletted_texture.

                        Just six months ago:

                        I have no objection to removing this feature (and those drivers).
                        http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...ch/005713.html

                        Last edited by dungeon; 08-27-2011, 10:30 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dungeon View Post
                          58+1336+35852+85811+8+885+2104+436+675+2035+16=129 216

                          100/(830969/129216)=15.5500385694

                          ~16% by Ian Romanick



                          And Marball Odyssey which coming to Linux use GL_EXT_paletted_texture/GL_OES_compressed_paletted_texture.
                          Modern GPUs do not support GL_EXT_paletted_texture in hardware. In fact no AMD GPU has ever supported this feature, no Nvidia GPU since the 6x00 series and no Intel IGP.

                          This feature would have to be emulated in shaders, which is both inefficient and stupid, considering (a) that noone should be using 8bit textures in 2011, (b) the workaround is trivial (convert to 16bit or 32bit textures on load), (c) that the amount of work necessary for this feature is ridiculous and (d) that the manpower is as limited as it is.

                          Do you really propose adding obsolete GL 1.1 features instead of working towards GL 3.0?

                          I hope the developer has added a workaround, because paletted textures are not supported in 95% of the desktop cards in circulation right now.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                            (...) paletted textures are not supported in 95% of the desktop cards in circulation right now.
                            I wonder if it's still used/supported in some embeded hardware though?

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                            • #29
                              I thought it was supported on the mobile ones? It's a pretty good way to reduce texture sizes in vram.

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                              • #30
                                It's quite possible that some mobile GPUs may support the OES version of the extension (which is quite different than the old desktop one) but I don't know how universal that support is.

                                Note that regular texture compression can net you larger gains than 8bpp textures and with much higher color depths to boot (i.e. s3tc compresses 24bpp images down to 4bpp). Alternatively, you can emulate paletted textures in shaders and enjoy much higher flexibility than driver emulation: maybe your sprites only need 4bpp? Or 10bpp? Translucency? Shaders can do all that.

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