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Legacy Mesa Drivers Receive Their Death Sentence

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  • #16
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Edit: Oh, and Mesa devs - guess what would make this move seem even more acceptable to the teeming masses. If it came with the same release that bumped the version to 8.0 and added GL3 support. Hint, Hint.
    We're actually quite close...it's entirely possible.
    Free Software Developer .:. Mesa and Xorg
    Opinions expressed in these forum posts are my own.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Elv13 View Post
      4 of my servers still have i810 (865G) VGA port. Of course, vesa would do (they are servers after all), but a -lot- of peoples still have socket 478 based P4. Those computers sold for years mostly unchnaged. You could still buy new ones less than 4 years ago (celeron D with 845G). I think it is way to early to drop this driver.
      As stated before by Ian Romanick; your servers will remain supported. But I think I could even defend it if they would have dropped those as well. RHEL gives another 7 years of support for these P4's. By that time, your machine is definitively to old to support.

      Originally posted by squirrl View Post
      This just proves the obvious fact:
      ............ Developers can't come up with a stable ABI

      What was it Tesla said, "My method is different. I do not rush into actual work. When I get a new idea, I start at once building it up in my imagination, and make improvements and operate the device in my mind. When I have gone so far as to embody everything in my invention, every possible improvement I can think of, and when I see no fault anywhere, I put into concrete form the final product of my brain.

      Jesus, if only more developers would invoke this carnal knowledge.

      Another good one:

      "If _________ had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
      I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.

      Substitute a few peoples names in there it gets hilarious.
      Torvalds, Cox, Packard

      ...
      You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by squirrl View Post
        This just proves the obvious fact:
        ............ Developers can't come up with a stable ABI

        What was it Tesla said, "My method is different. I do not rush into actual work. When I get a new idea, I start at once building it up in my imagination, and make improvements and operate the device in my mind. When I have gone so far as to embody everything in my invention, every possible improvement I can think of, and when I see no fault anywhere, I put into concrete form the final product of my brain.”

        Jesus, if only more developers would invoke this carnal knowledge.

        Another good one:

        "If _________ had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
        I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”

        Substitute a few peoples names in there it gets hilarious.
        Torvalds, Cox, Packard

        ...
        You do understand that your post (a) has nothing to do with the subject at hand and (b) is borderline bullshit, right?
        (Repeat after me: I will not post while being high on [enter name of substance here])

        - Gilboa
        DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
        SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
        BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
        LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by cl333r View Post
          Remember how Intel cleaned up its driver stack? People complained but it was worth it, cause now, like a year and a half later, the Intel driver is waaay better.
          So I'm all for another clean up.
          It was worth it for those with the $new_chips. Entirely not worth it for those with i8xx.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by curaga View Post
            It was worth it for those with the $new_chips. Entirely not worth it for those with i8xx.
            The question is - what is the greater good.
            By time Intel decided to remove the cruft, most of the user base of **new** distributions were already using $new_chips instead of obsolete i810 supported devices.
            Keep in mind that if you are using an old machine, you're most likely -far- better of with using older, long term distribution (such as SL/CentOS/RHEL as old as 4.x) instead of using Ubuntu and Fedora.

            E.g. my PII/333Mhz/MACH64/256MB laptop will most likely use CentOS 5.x till it dies.

            - Gilboa
            DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB + 2x3TB, GTX780, F21/x86_64, Dell U2711.
            SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F21/x86_64, Dell U2412..
            BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F21/x86-64.
            LAP: ASUS N56VJ, i7-3630QM, 16GB, 1TB, 635M, F21/x86_64.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by curaga View Post
              It was worth it for those with the $new_chips. Entirely not worth it for those with i8xx.
              That is not true. Support for i8xx was more or less broken for nearly a year but in the last months the support is getting better again. For example Ubuntu 11.04 works way much better than Ubuntu 10.04 on this chips.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by gilboa View Post
                (Repeat after me: I will not post while being high on [enter name of substance here])
                Hey, I've made some of my best posts on <substance>, and people still make inane posts on <blue pill>. Leave the drugz out of it, NARC.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by glasen View Post
                  That is not true. Support for i8xx was more or less broken for nearly a year but in the last months the support is getting better again. For example Ubuntu 11.04 works way much better than Ubuntu 10.04 on this chips.
                  Ubuntu is using the vesa driver as the default, which is why it works better, so your argument only supports the viewpoint you quoted. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Mavericki8xxStatus

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DanL View Post
                    Ubuntu is using the vesa driver as the default, which is why it works better, so your argument only supports the viewpoint you quoted. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Mavericki8xxStatus
                    Believe, i know what i'm talking about.

                    The 855GM-chipset flawlessly works if you're using kernel-version 2.6.38+, the Intel graphics driver 2.16 (without SNA) and Mesa 7.10.3+. Ubuntu 11.04 delivers two of these three things but can update the graphics driver to version 2.16 very easily.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Just because you're using Mesa 7.10.3, it doesn't mean you're using the i810 driver. Furthermore, even if you are, it doesn't mean that the i810 driver doesn't freeze on lots of other hardware/systems other than yours.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        What are you talking about? The "i810"-DRI-module was used only for the i810 and i815-chipsets. All other chipsets newer than this use the "i915" (i830 - i945) or the "i965"-DRI-module (i965 and above).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by glasen View Post
                          The "i810"-DRI-module was used only for the i810 and i815-chipsets. All other chipsets newer than this use the "i915" (i830 - i945) or the "i965"-DRI-module (i965 and above).
                          Okay, then why are you talking about your i855 if it's unrelated to the topic?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Because of this excerpt from Michaels article:

                            The only one of these DRI1 hardware drivers that still might be missed by a small portion of users would be the i810 driver, which provides the Intel Mesa support for pre-i915 IGPs. This though shouldn't be a terrible shock. Intel engineers haven't given a damn about the i810/855 series for years since some of this old hardware was already fairly problematic just when it came to mode-setting and there was already a host of DDX issues when migrating to the GEM-enabled KMS-only stack.

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                            • #29
                              Right. Just to be clear: the proposal is to remove support for the original i810, which uses a separate "i810" DRI1 driver. Ian did not propose removing support for i830/845/852/855/865, which uses the "i915" DRI2 driver.

                              Michael is correct in that all the 8xx chipsets are basically unsupported at this point, though...we might remove 3D support for those at some point in the future (but not today!).
                              Free Software Developer .:. Mesa and Xorg
                              Opinions expressed in these forum posts are my own.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Darn... Still using savage, tdfx and r128 here... I actually find it more satisfying to resurrect old systems than to participate in FPS bragging contests.

                                Oh well, there are a couple of distros aimed at old HW anyway, there's hoping legacy Mesa will be in maintenance mode through those.

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