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An OpenGL 4.1 Gallium3D State Tracker Was Just Proposed

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Rabauke View Post
    FAIL!

    (who pays the bills while spending time on this task? Developing a state tracker beside the job...? ha ha)
    GSOC money is not paid on a monthly basis. It is only judged after GSOC whether it was a success or not and gets money. So he needs to have a regular job anyway.
    And even if GSOC paid monthly: Who would quit his job for a few months for this anyway?

    KWin's main developer manages to develop everything as part of his hobby. He is not paid by anyone for his work. He has a regular job in a completely unrelated company.

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    • #32
      I don't get your point. The more money involved, the more oss advances. May it be in LoC or in quality. So this money is an incentive to get things done earlier.

      It should be free of choice whether a person who is willing to code (that you can use free of charge btw.) takes money for it or not. In the end it's only about having now or having in the next five years. And as you can see, there are people out there who want to get specific parts earlier.

      And the GoSC money is available anyway. So don't mind.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by monraaf View Post
        Does anything, besides future kde versions , actually use OpenGL 4+ on Linux?

        Personally I couldn't care less about OpenGL 4, 5, 10 whatever. All I care about is good OpenGL 2.1 support plus any extras needed by wine. And by good support I'm talking about support in the complete driver stack, not just the state tracker. So from my point of view I'd rather see a GSoC student applying for hacking on r600g.

        Having said that, it's not for me to decide what other people should do in their own time, so if he wishes to work on OpenGL 4.1 I wish him good luck, although I agree with other comments that it does sound way too over ambitious.
        AFAIK, Kwin is only going to use ClosedGL 3.x, not 4.x.. but that's close enough, since 3.x was a massive change in its own right.

        And don't forget Unigine games, which for now is just the failure OilRush, but will soon be a lot more (the free licenses they gave away, plus any commercial licenses they've sold to date).

        I agree, however, that full and efficient (read: comparable to binary alternatives) OpenGL 2.1 support for all Gallium3d drivers is far more important in 2011-2012 than any higher version of ClosedGL support. I'd even place EGL and GLES 2.0 at a higher priority than ClosedGL 3.x or later -- especially if proper support would be excluded by default from the most popular distros due to patent issues.

        I hate software patents, and Khronos for allowing them to seep into their "Open" GL specification, and the 1 minute edit limit.

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        • #34
          Absolutely possible with good and passionate developer. Good luck.

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          • #35
            Kwin will support OpenGL ES 2.0, but not OGL 3.x....

            As for patents?

            1) Servers developers must live outside USA (or provide code with disabled by default patents)
            2) Distro vendors MUST by placed outside USA, and must/should warn that software may infidge some laws of some countries.
            3) Patents must cover software and hardware issues. (S3TC covers only hwd so LLVMPipe will have it enebled by default).

            EU do not have software patents. But USA is activelly pushing for them.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
              Getting into FOSS just for the money… boy, I hate GSOC. It has corrupted the whole FOSS community.
              Either he wants to develop that, then he should do it right now and not “maybe in summer if I get accepted”.
              i dont think its fair. without sponsors linux would be merely a hobby.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by przemoli View Post
                S3TC covers only hwd so LLVMPipe will have it enebled by default
                This is not true.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Goderic View Post
                  Belgium has AFAIK also no USA laws

                  (1 min edit indeed sucks)
                  QFT. This reminds me of the game Killzone 3:
                  This is not human! This is against the Stockholm international treaty!
                  -What fscking planet do you think you're on?!
                  Stereotypical USA behavior; thinking you are the entire world....

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                  • #39
                    Since marek didn't' elaborate... from what I've gathered. S3TC is used for compressing uncompressed textures to send to the card and also to process such textures when already compressed and there is no hardware support. If the texture is already compressed and hardware is being used S3TC isn't needed as the texture can be passed straight to the card.

                    P.S. if Michael knew what was good for him he would reenable editing so we could correct mistakes in posts so they don't spread misinformation... as its stands this is one of the worst forums I have ever been on.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pickup View Post
                      ... OpenGL 3/4 linux implementation is stopped by those f***ed patents.
                      Will be ever possible to do something GL3/4 without having to pay someone $ 1,241,452,883,945,814,664,741,093 for every single working OpenGL thing + 3,121,532 years in prison on Pluto (years of Pluto, not Earth)?
                      Sure it's possible. Do all your work in the European Union. They don't have the retarded concept of software patents.

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                      • #41
                        I would also like to say that I understand that it affects the US citizens and that we should keep the entire world in mind, but likewise nobody cares for chinese laws. Not to forget: China has more people than the US.

                        Let us remind ourselves that we should not always accept any law just because it's the law. If you could get punished for not handing jews to the Nazi's then does that mean that you should? Why is the free software movement limited by the law to compete against a giant software company that is or was, by law, anticompetative? Something is realy wrong here!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                          Let us remind ourselves that we should not always accept any law just because it's the law. If you could get punished for not handing jews to the Nazi's then does that mean that you should? Why is the free software movement limited by the law to compete against a giant software company that is or was, by law, anticompetative? Something is realy wrong here!
                          The companies making money on open source are affected by the patents not the community. We have code for all (i think) the patented stuff (from h264 to whatever) and anyone can activate these features (use a different repo or whatever the distribution has).

                          What harms open source is the lack of manpower and the fragmented nature of it. (ie they just forked ffmpeg).

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                          • #43
                            Hello,

                            Thanks to everyone for the encouragement. I will now give you some more information about my project.

                            At first, it's a project. I really hope to have something interresting done during the summer, but I cannot say for sure that I will succeed to make a complete Open GL 4.1 + OpenCL + OpenGL ES 2 state tracker in three months . As said on this forum and on the Mesa mailing list, it's a really big adventure and my GSoC project is to begin it and then to go as far as possible.

                            Many people are also concerned about the software patents. Most of OpenGL is free of patents (the features covered by OpenGL 2.1 and big parts of OpenGL 3+). The most annoying patent for the moment is the one covering floating-point textures. Fortunately, it doesn't cover software implementations, so the state tracker and llvmpipe can use it. I don't think that the fact I work in Belgium changes the situation regarding the patents. Mesa is used in the entire world, including the USA. One way to go could be to use the --enable-patented switch when building Mesa. One inconvenient of this is that we have to rebuild Mesa to enable patented features, but a distribution based out of the USA could provide two Mesa packages, one for the US people, and another for people living outside the USA.

                            I also want to say that I don't do this work for money. I follow Mesa for two years and I want to do that for nearly one year. The Google Summer of Code is only a big plus that decided me to try the adventure, but I will also work on this state tracker even if I'm not selected by Google, and I will begin when I have time and when other Mesa developers are ok if Google allows that (I mean that I will not wait until the summer and then stop just after the Summer of Code program).

                            Thanks to everyone,
                            Denis Steckelmacher.

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                            • #44
                              you've probably read corbin's and marek's answer in the mailing list and i think they are right.


                              Do something small,fast and usefull (ie parts of the GL todo list). No need to aim really high.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                                I would also like to say that I understand that it affects the US citizens and that we should keep the entire world in mind, but likewise nobody cares for chinese laws. Not to forget: China has more people than the US.
                                The US has more people with cash and more people who are thoughtless consumers, though. We buy and use more shit than anymore else. An entire nation of millions of people who consume 100x as many tonnes of product as they produce.

                                Let us remind ourselves that we should not always accept any law just because it's the law.
                                Let's also remind ourselves that getting sued out of existence isn't in any way fighting a law. Protesting against a law in mass is effective. Being downtrodden outside of the wider public eye accomplishes nothing. And the common man doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to patents or other "IP" laws. He's not going to get behind protesting on your behalf if you get sued for patent infringement. You'll get a small handful of uber-nerd geeks sending a handful of emails and that'd be the extent of the support you're going to get.

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