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Reverse Engineering PowerVR Is Now A High Priority

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
    Ah poop! Nothing for my KyroII boo
    Let me cry with you brother! I really understand your feelings...

    How nice where those days when Kyro 2 was ways in front of Ati and co. with the old 2.4 kernel driver, even in a binary form it was great at a much more experimental period for Linux

    I still use my Kyro 2 card and unfortunately I am stuck with the XP cancer... We are not lucky I guess...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
      Oh, so now it's a priority? Where have they been for the past...oooh, four years now?
      When i was the only guy (apart from twini) doing something as useless as modesetting, i never heard of the FSF.
      When we were doing RadeonHD and were freeing ATI, pushing them to get docs out and writing a driver, we never heard of the FSF.
      When i wrote up the code to get a unichrome bootstrapped for a full VGA text mode, and later on a full graphical mode, i never heard of the FSF.

      And now there is some guy out there, who REed a part of a different chip, and the FSF mistakenly thinks this guy does PVR stuff, now they make noise?

      Pffff... talk about being irrelevant...

      Comment


      • #18
        The FSF has been irrelevant for a long time. Aside from the GPLv3, they haven't done anything noteworthy since... GPLv2. Even their flagship software project, GCC, is starting to fall into irrelevancy as just about everyone interested in compilers is running in the opposite direction towards codebases that don't look like they were written by LISP programmers trapped in C programmers' bodies.

        The amount of pure GNU software running on most Linux desktops is very small in comparison to the total amount of software running on them. The amount of pure GNU software running on the Linux mobile devices (which vastly outnumber the number of desktops around, Linux or otherwise) is infinitesimal.

        I for one look forward to desktop-level replacements for glibc and coreutils, which will basically boot out GNU of the Linux OS ecosystem and let them rot where they belong with their pure-GPL HURD OS that still doesn't work 20 years after it was conceived.

        Granted, I also look forward to just about all (L)GPL-licensed software being replaced with variants that value user experience over developer lazine^Wfreedom, so I'm probably already fairly biased against the FSF.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Kivada View Post
          Yeah right. Unlike a reverse engineered PowerVR driver the Nouveau driver is largely a waste of time since you have an option to buy a system with an integrated AMD/ATI or Intel GPU or buy a dedicated AMD/ATI GPU, you know, companies that actually spend money and dev time on OSS drivers for their hardware unlike Nvidia that just put out a gimmick and a pittance for OSS drivers.

          Now though, for the vast majority of ARM based consumer products there is no option other then a PowerVR GPU and you can't add in your own GPU since none of the hardware comes with an expansion slot. Sure, Nvidia is making inroads into the ARM market with their Tegra line of SoCs, but the market is still dominated by Texas Instruments.

          Yeah, I know Qualcomm's Snapdragon series SoCs use the ATI Imageon derived Adreno, but from what I've seen there’s no OSS driver being developed for it. Yes, there’s also VIA/S3's ARM chips like the WM8505, which has no good Linux driver, nor is it fast enough anyone to actually want something based around it outside of disposable mini laptops for black hatting.
          err what! sure there is , you didn't look very hard it seems....

          lets see
          http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=209324 which leads to
          http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=716224 and ooh look that leads to
          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=ODM4OA
          Qualcomm Releases Open-Source 2D/3D Kernel Driver
          Posted by Michael Larabel on July 01, 2010

          and OC you have heard about
          http://blogs.arm.com/multimedia/249-...r-open-source/
          Making the Mali GPU Device Driver open source
          Posted by Sam Taylor,11 August 2010

          and their ARM Mali-604 MP GPU OC.
          http://blogs.arm.com/multimedia/395-...y-at-mwc-2011/

          not to mention the newest snapdragon Adreno 320 sometime next year OC

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by popper View Post
            err what! sure there is , you didn't look very hard it seems....

            lets see
            http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=209324 which leads to
            http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=716224 and ooh look that leads to
            http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=ODM4OA
            Qualcomm Releases Open-Source 2D/3D Kernel Driver
            Posted by Michael Larabel on July 01, 2010
            Let's see:

            Originally posted by phoronix
            Unfortunately the user-space component hasn't been released yet
            Originally posted by popper View Post
            and OC you have heard about
            http://blogs.arm.com/multimedia/249-...r-open-source/
            Making the Mali GPU Device Driver open source
            Posted by Sam Taylor,11 August 2010

            and their ARM Mali-604 MP GPU OC.
            http://blogs.arm.com/multimedia/395-...y-at-mwc-2011/
            And again:

            Originally posted by blogs.arm.com
            "So what exactly have we decided to open source?

            For the r2p0 release we've opened up all the Linux kernel side components of the Mali drivers under the GPLv2.
            So they only opensource the kernel component, that's not very interesting.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by monraaf View Post
              Let's see:

              And again:

              So they only opensource the kernel component, that's not very interesting.
              sure ,but i never said it was a perfect world, they both need to open that side of it, and other parts too OC, but its a start and they are open to the possibility, they are both the better option than buying a PowerVR GPU device today it seems, and remember it was ARM that helped PowerVR become what they are today.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                Ah poop! Nothing for my KyroII boo
                !
                Yeah, that's a shame. Also nothing about the PCX2, which is a bummer. I was really really really hoping to use it on linux one day :'( I bet it would beat a GMA950... or not.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by popper View Post
                  sure ,but i never said it was a perfect world, they both need to open that side of it, and other parts too OC, but its a start and they are open to the possibility, they are both the better option than buying a PowerVR GPU device today it seems, and remember it was ARM that helped PowerVR become what they are today.

                  There is open PowerVR kernel code as well under the GPL.

                  So they are all equally shit.

                  Dave.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by popper View Post
                    it was ARM that helped PowerVR become what they are today.
                    From a promising PC graphics company to an underpowered embedded graphics provider?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Linux GNU GPLv2

                      People have to keep in mind that the linux GNU GPL has a exception.

                      Indeed, this exception makes the GNU GPL stops at syscall level *only* for "normal" user space programs. Recently on the DRI mailing list (search the archives and look for a mail from Alan Cox), it was recalled that a user space program which drives hardware is *not* a "normal" user space program, then it's protected by the GNU GPL.

                      Then, it means that the FSF can sue the PowerVR mother companie to make it release the source code. But for that, it will need support from some linux developers. It seems most of them do not want to bother.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sylware View Post
                        People have to keep in mind that the linux GNU GPL has a exception.

                        Indeed, this exception makes the GNU GPL stops at syscall level *only* for "normal" user space programs. Recently on the DRI mailing list (search the archives and look for a mail from Alan Cox), it was recalled that a user space program which drives hardware is *not* a "normal" user space program, then it's protected by the GNU GPL.

                        Then, it means that the FSF can sue the PowerVR mother companie to make it release the source code. But for that, it will need support from some linux developers. It seems most of them do not want to bother.

                        wait - wat ?

                        wow - all the Android-users (especially the ones with the Samsung Galaxy S) need to know about this and force PowerVR to release the code

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          been busy and forget to come back to this,sorry.
                          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                          From a promising PC graphics company to an underpowered embedded graphics provider?
                          well most people forget the PowerVR/ Imagination Technologies origins as VideoLogic and that they originally focused on graphics AND sound acceleration OC

                          they even made and make the UK DAB radio chipset etc.

                          plus their focus in the digital set top box and mobile market with them trying to become the dominant MPEG-2 chip License holder way back in 1999, when the world market for mobile phones sold was something like 50 million, and at the same time trying compete with 3dfx.

                          perhaps we shouldn't really discourage Imagination use and dialogue (even though Hossein Yassaie is a Brummie he did work over 10 years at Inmos back in the day too so that's a very good thing ) as they are also a far more powerful embedded graphics provider than you seem to think!, especially with this year's product lines and spec's coming out apparently.

                          but back to the point,Hossein first signed an official Strategic Agreement with ARM way back in January 2001
                          http://www.imgtec.com/corporate/news....asp?NewsID=53
                          Imagination Technologies and ARM Sign Strategic Agreement

                          ARM to Offer PowerVR Cores to ARM Licensees

                          KINGS LANGLEY, UK and CAMBRIDGE, UK: "

                          and then on 21 February 2001
                          "25 January 2001
                          http://www.imgtec.com/corporate/news...asp?NewsID=233
                          21 February 2001

                          Imagination Technologies and ARM Announce New Graphics Processor Technology for Mobile Computing and Communications

                          PowerVR® MBX Will Provide Landmark Performance for Mobile Graphics

                          NICE, France Feb. 21, 2001 Imagination Technologies (LSE:IMG), the leading provider of human computer interface intellectual property (IP), and ARM"

                          then again in February 2004 they renewed their Collaborate with ARM
                          http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/4861.php
                          "ARM and Imagination Technologies Collaborate To Offer Greater Support For Advanced 3D Graphics
                          23 February 2004

                          PowerVR technology-based PowerVR MBX Embedded Graphics Accelerators to support the OpenGL ES standard for embedded systems

                          CAMBRIDGE, UK AND LONDON, UK – Feb. 23, 2004"
                          right after
                          http://www.arm.com/about/newsroom/4743.php
                          "Samsung Licenses PowerVR MBX From ARM For 3D Mobile Graphics Technology
                          29 January 2004

                          PowerVR MBX technology facilitates Samsung’s high-end 3D graphics on mobile APs for smart phones and PDAs
                          CAMBRIDGE, UK - Jan. 29, 2004 - ARM"

                          only after around June 2006 did that Collaborate stop, but even then not totally as they are still and will continue to use ARM as their core CPU.

                          "ARM's decision to acquire Falanx Microsystems in June 2006 was so that it could have its own graphics cores instead of selling the ARM-plus-Imagination combination. "

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kernelOfTruth View Post
                            wait - wat ?

                            wow - all the Android-users (especially the ones with the Samsung Galaxy S) need to know about this and force PowerVR to release the code
                            or you could just ask Hossein to open up to start with i guess.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by airlied View Post
                              There is open PowerVR kernel code as well under the GPL.

                              So they are all equally shit.

                              Dave.
                              we know your main code base focus is x86 600g but do you also do ARM development yet Dave?, did you or any of the other Mesa dav's actually bother to actually ask Sam Taylor, Jem Davies or even Ed Plowman etc to open it up ASAP and how best to do that for your needs/wants ?

                              i dont even see any real developer effort to post to that open http://blogs.arm.com/multimedia/249-...r-open-source/
                              thread when they clearly want you're feedback to improve, perhaps the mesa devs should actually try and make the effort to at least post to that thread and ask.

                              ARM are even talking to Linaro ( i dont hold out much hope Linaro will do it right as they dont even work or respond at weekends and patches seem very irregular ATM) so am surprised that mesa in all this time are not/cant be bothered talking to them and the other ARM Gfx vendors today to open up and how best to do that for everyone's profit in 2011/12.

                              Comment

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