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A Bounty For Gallium3D On Haiku OS

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  • A Bounty For Gallium3D On Haiku OS

    Phoronix: A Bounty For Gallium3D On Haiku OS

    Going back to at least 2009 there's been interest in having Gallium3D on the Haiku operating system and last year they hoped for a new graphics stack as part of GSoC 2010, but that didn't develop. They wanted Gallium3D and/or the ability to load Linux graphics drivers on this BeOS-compatible operating system. Now though they've put up a cash bounty to get Gallium3D support...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=OTA0NA

  • #2
    ...why? why would anyone spend $2000 to give haiku 3d support? it will never become a mainstream os and from what i heard its really just available for enthusiasts; it doesn't actually offer any legitimate benefits over any os.

    this is like the equivalent to someone who makes model vehicles for a living and would pay someone to put a working engine in them - the purpose of making the models is to have an artistic hobby (that you might make money off of) and they're not meant to actually drive or fly, models are just to look at. of course its possible to make them functional but who is actually going to buy a nicely made model of a car or airplane and expect it to move? thats what cheap R/C toys are for.

    when people use haiku, they're not expecting to run modern programs. linux itself has enough issues with keeping up with 3d performance or demanding 3d programs/games. this money could be better spent improving linux's 3d support.

    Comment


    • #3
      The person who put up the bounty is (I'd assume) the person who is offering to pay someone for this work. That person, it would seem, would like to have Gallium3D in Haiku (for increased hardware support, and "free" 3d support, I guess). "Why reinvent the wheel when all these free drivers already exist", you might ask.

      I'd imagine anyone who decides to actually do the work would be either somebody interested in Haiku, or someone who wants experience with Gallium/Mesa. A hobbyist might also be interested in it, and the extra money wouldn't hurt either.

      And whoever does this may also help with "Linux 3d support", since they are using the same code. It may be a while before Haiku is in good enough shape for that to happen, but if it's a hobbyist doing the work anyway, he might not have worked on Mesa/Gallium at all before this.

      I don't see why you have to get all upset over something which won't directly effect you, and might positively effect you indirectly.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not sure what's your problem about this. First of all who on earth are you to say "Haiku will never be used and is there only for hobbiest" ? I think they said something similar about Linux, especially that it didn't have future because it was strictly tied to Torvalds hardware.

        The fact that Linux is far more advanced doesn't mean that anything that isn't Linux = bad | pointless | hobby.

        You may end up here http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Incorrect_predictions


        And just to make things clear, I never used Haiku so I'm not trying to defend anyone or anything if not liberty of programmers to code what they want, as they want, when they want, and for what they want.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
          ...why? why would anyone spend $2000 to give haiku 3d support? it will never become a mainstream os and from what i heard its really just available for enthusiasts; it doesn't actually offer any legitimate benefits over any os.

          this is like the equivalent to someone who makes model vehicles for a living and would pay someone to put a working engine in them - the purpose of making the models is to have an artistic hobby (that you might make money off of) and they're not meant to actually drive or fly, models are just to look at. of course its possible to make them functional but who is actually going to buy a nicely made model of a car or airplane and expect it to move? thats what cheap R/C toys are for.

          when people use haiku, they're not expecting to run modern programs. linux itself has enough issues with keeping up with 3d performance or demanding 3d programs/games. this money could be better spent improving linux's 3d support.

          Well then buck up and spend $2ooo on linux 3d support. No one is stopping you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
            I'm not sure what's your problem about this. First of all who on earth are you to say "Haiku will never be used and is there only for hobbiest" ? I think they said something similar about Linux, especially that it didn't have future because it was strictly tied to Torvalds hardware.

            The fact that Linux is far more advanced doesn't mean that anything that isn't Linux = bad | pointless | hobby.

            You may end up here http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Incorrect_predictions


            And just to make things clear, I never used Haiku so I'm not trying to defend anyone or anything if not liberty of programmers to code what they want, as they want, when they want, and for what they want.
            I terms of hardware support and applications this is widely true. In a few areas linux is more advanced. In a few others linux is still just the big old unix design.

            It depends on what features you need/want in your OS as to which one is more advanced. The biggest points about haiku would be considered drawbacks by alot of the linux community. But those same drawbacks are strengths to many other users.

            I really just depends on what exactly you expect from your OS.

            As I type this from webpositive in Haiku.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
              I'm not sure what's your problem about this. First of all who on earth are you to say "Haiku will never be used and is there only for hobbiest" ? I think they said something similar about Linux, especially that it didn't have future because it was strictly tied to Torvalds hardware.

              The fact that Linux is far more advanced doesn't mean that anything that isn't Linux = bad | pointless | hobby.

              You may end up here http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Incorrect_predictions


              And just to make things clear, I never used Haiku so I'm not trying to defend anyone or anything if not liberty of programmers to code what they want, as they want, when they want, and for what they want.
              actually, i'm not the one who made that up, and even if i did its not as serious as you're making it sound. i was told from multiple sources that haiku is intended for hobbyist and enthusiast purposes only and should not be used for serious purposes.

              linux, at its release, was one of a kind. it became a success due to how immensely different and stable it was compared to other OSes, and the fact that it was free and open source. although linux is the best and most popular of the OS "minorities", it is the least popular of the OS majorities, and by a lot too. linus created linux as a hobbyist project that others found to be the start of a new beginning. beos, as far as i'm aware, is about the same age as linux and that did not take off at all, and it was specifically competing against mac os. it eventually died due to NeXT+apple creating OS X. linux being community driven, never really got hindered because there weren't many funds to keep it going in the first place. it still took a very very long time for linux to become recognized as a desktop OS, and some people will still argue that it isn't.
              haiku is bringing beos back for people who still want to use beos based programs and for a taste of computer history, but i think anyone could agree that beos/haiku is never going to revive itself. i'm not saying its a bad project, its just too late. linux has enough trouble getting itself known and onto desktop computers. beos being a desktop os, is certainly not going to get there first.

              as something slightly off topic, free bsd ~ unix is in a very similar situation to haiku ~ beos except bsd never really "died", it just slowed down a lot. some people would consider free bsd today as a hobbyist or enthusiast OS, however, it does still have a lot of practical uses and can still compete against mainstream OSes (whereas beos can't). i like to think of free bsd as the official unix still under development and linux as the "new unix".


              i'm not intending to offend anyone, i just think that considering beos/haiku is too late to get a lot of attention and linux is where the free and open source future is at, and it needs all the help it can get. once linux gets enough attention, it shouldn't be too terribly hard to move things to free bsd or even haiku.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                when people use haiku, they're not expecting to run modern programs. linux itself has enough issues with keeping up with 3d performance or demanding 3d programs/games. this money could be better spent improving linux's 3d support.
                when you use your money, you are not expecting to have as much fun with it as i could. i have enough issues with keeping up with my amusement needs. your money could be better spent improving me visiting the cinema or going to a restaurant.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                  actually, i'm not the one who made that up, and even if i did its not as serious as you're making it sound. i was told from multiple sources that haiku is intended for hobbyist and enthusiast purposes only and should not be used for serious purposes.

                  linux, at its release, was one of a kind. it became a success due to how immensely different and stable it was compared to other OSes, and the fact that it was free and open source. although linux is the best and most popular of the OS "minorities", it is the least popular of the OS majorities, and by a lot too. linus created linux as a hobbyist project that others found to be the start of a new beginning. beos, as far as i'm aware, is about the same age as linux and that did not take off at all, and it was specifically competing against mac os. it eventually died due to NeXT+apple creating OS X. linux being community driven, never really got hindered because there weren't many funds to keep it going in the first place. it still took a very very long time for linux to become recognized as a desktop OS, and some people will still argue that it isn't.
                  haiku is bringing beos back for people who still want to use beos based programs and for a taste of computer history, but i think anyone could agree that beos/haiku is never going to revive itself. i'm not saying its a bad project, its just too late. linux has enough trouble getting itself known and onto desktop computers. beos being a desktop os, is certainly not going to get there first.

                  as something slightly off topic, free bsd ~ unix is in a very similar situation to haiku ~ beos except bsd never really "died", it just slowed down a lot. some people would consider free bsd today as a hobbyist or enthusiast OS, however, it does still have a lot of practical uses and can still compete against mainstream OSes (whereas beos can't). i like to think of free bsd as the official unix still under development and linux as the "new unix".


                  i'm not intending to offend anyone, i just think that considering beos/haiku is too late to get a lot of attention and linux is where the free and open source future is at, and it needs all the help it can get. once linux gets enough attention, it shouldn't be too terribly hard to move things to free bsd or even haiku.

                  Actually I think Haiku stand a better chance at adoption then linux does. there are multitudes of reasons and there is certainly room for more OS's in the software ecosystem. We are seeing the death of windows on the horizon as people start to dislike more and more dealing with all the nausance problems that come with windows.

                  At one point windows was a geek OS. Sadly I think linux saw its best market share in about 1998-1999 IIRC. It was pretty popular then but windows XP really pretty much killed linux,beos and MAC for a good long while there. So did win98se.

                  The reality is though that Mircosoft is beging to see its own death. It's about time for the rise of the opensource Os community. It will simply happens but its going to take about 10 years for it to occur.

                  I know linux proponents like to talk about how linux is on phones and such, while thats great it doesn't guarentee linux a future. Its just the easiest thing to implement today. If google wasn't pushing the cloud I would be we'd see them fund haiku a little more then they already have and they have contributed greatly to the haiku project over the last few years.

                  BEOS was a great OS for certain things. Mainly media consumption and creation which is where the web is truly heading. In those regards I think we may see haiku advance here greatly. Theres already alot of promising applications and such for video editing and audio creation waiting to be updated that run today right now.

                  There is also the QT port which is current to version 4.8 AFAIK and they are moving alot of applications for the QT port, which is nicely integrated.

                  About the biggest content killer right now is a lack of flash, html5 and webm and the new vp8 codec will be supported by haiku and to be honest, I think the internet will move to the more open standard simply out of need. Adobes hold on content distrobution and games is over. It just needs time to occur.

                  Basically there is plenty of room for haiku bsd linux etc etc etc and the Haiku community wants to port gallium. They have put up the money and if a developer steps up and does it I would be extremly graeful.

                  There is a growing number of sdl and opengl games being moved.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
                    Actually I think Haiku stand a better chance at adoption then linux does. there are multitudes of reasons and there is certainly room for more OS's in the software ecosystem. We are seeing the death of windows on the horizon as people start to dislike more and more dealing with all the nausance problems that come with windows.

                    At one point windows was a geek OS. Sadly I think linux saw its best market share in about 1998-1999 IIRC. It was pretty popular then but windows XP really pretty much killed linux,beos and MAC for a good long while there. So did win98se.

                    The reality is though that Mircosoft is beging to see its own death. It's about time for the rise of the opensource Os community. It will simply happens but its going to take about 10 years for it to occur.

                    I know linux proponents like to talk about how linux is on phones and such, while thats great it doesn't guarentee linux a future. Its just the easiest thing to implement today. If google wasn't pushing the cloud I would be we'd see them fund haiku a little more then they already have and they have contributed greatly to the haiku project over the last few years.

                    BEOS was a great OS for certain things. Mainly media consumption and creation which is where the web is truly heading. In those regards I think we may see haiku advance here greatly. Theres already alot of promising applications and such for video editing and audio creation waiting to be updated that run today right now.

                    There is also the QT port which is current to version 4.8 AFAIK and they are moving alot of applications for the QT port, which is nicely integrated.

                    About the biggest content killer right now is a lack of flash, html5 and webm and the new vp8 codec will be supported by haiku and to be honest, I think the internet will move to the more open standard simply out of need. Adobes hold on content distrobution and games is over. It just needs time to occur.

                    Basically there is plenty of room for haiku bsd linux etc etc etc and the Haiku community wants to port gallium. They have put up the money and if a developer steps up and does it I would be extremly graeful.

                    There is a growing number of sdl and opengl games being moved.

                    actually i'd have to agree with just about everything you said and you made a lot of interesting points. i would like to hear more about your opinions as to why haiku has more of a chance for adoption, because to me everything that haiku has, linux has the same thing and better. i started using linux in 2007, so i'm not really aware of when its prime moments were but a lot of people are saying 2011 is linux's year to shine, and i'd have to agree with it. as i see it, the only thing holding back linux from popularity are:
                    * its relatively not user friendly (i personally think it's easy but its way too hard for the average person)
                    * it doesn't have enough commercial software support
                    * and IMO, its a little too diverse which can be discouraging to some and makes support (professional or not) very difficult.
                    since about 2008, linux got significantly easier, just in time for vista to screw up MS's name, and thats when it started to become more popular. unfortunately, windows 7 ended up being very successful so that took away a lot of the linux audience, but that just gives linux more time to be more polished for the picky people that left it in the first place.

                    i believe linux at some day will become a major contending desktop OS with a lot of commercial support, and i wouldn't be surprised if the MS empire falls during my lifetime (i'm currently 21). i don't believe google would have picked beos if linux didn't exist, i think they'd have chosen free bsd instead - its more polished.

                    i think competition is good, but open source does not need more of it, and thats exactly why i made my original post questioning the purpose of beos getting 3d support. linux, free bsd, aix, and solaris are already too much open source OSes. most of them have similar goals, but these goals get distracted and divided amongst the other OSes or other desktop environments, so nothing ever gets done. i feel like if linux and/or free bsd were the only open source OSes, they'd be considerably better than they are today.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                      actually i'd have to agree with just about everything you said and you made a lot of interesting points. i would like to hear more about your opinions as to why haiku has more of a chance for adoption, because to me everything that haiku has, linux has the same thing and better. i started using linux in 2007, so i'm not really aware of when its prime moments were but a lot of people are saying 2011 is linux's year to shine, and i'd have to agree with it. as i see it, the only thing holding back linux from popularity are:
                      * its relatively not user friendly (i personally think it's easy but its way too hard for the average person)
                      * it doesn't have enough commercial software support
                      * and IMO, its a little too diverse which can be discouraging to some and makes support (professional or not) very difficult.
                      since about 2008, linux got significantly easier, just in time for vista to screw up MS's name, and thats when it started to become more popular. unfortunately, windows 7 ended up being very successful so that took away a lot of the linux audience, but that just gives linux more time to be more polished for the picky people that left it in the first place.

                      i believe linux at some day will become a major contending desktop OS with a lot of commercial support, and i wouldn't be surprised if the MS empire falls during my lifetime (i'm currently 21). i don't believe google would have picked beos if linux didn't exist, i think they'd have chosen free bsd instead - its more polished.

                      i think competition is good, but open source does not need more of it, and thats exactly why i made my original post questioning the purpose of beos getting 3d support. linux, free bsd, aix, and solaris are already too much open source OSes. most of them have similar goals, but these goals get distracted and divided amongst the other OSes or other desktop environments, so nothing ever gets done. i feel like if linux and/or free bsd were the only open source OSes, they'd be considerably better than they are today.

                      if your hardware is supported. I would urge you to take it for a test drive. some things are still sort or work aroundy to get setup do to a good install scheme " which is being adressed as we speak". you just have to see it for yourself. It better for the OS to make its case to the end user then for me to try to sell it to you. If you have a spare partition on your drive, give it a spin.

                      I think most of the selling points of Haiku are the user experience is really very good. It very responsive and attentive to my needs, offers great media playback " on supported hardware" out of the box.

                      Most things just work. they also work well.

                      If you interested in trying it hit my pm box and I can walk you through a setup and install some apps.

                      try using it for a good 2-3 hours straight for web browsing etc and then boot into your other OS.

                      Then we can debate how to get that user experience out to more people.

                      It must be seen and experienced to be belleived !.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thatguy View Post
                        if your hardware is supported. I would urge you to take it for a test drive. some things are still sort or work aroundy to get setup do to a good install scheme " which is being adressed as we speak". you just have to see it for yourself. It better for the OS to make its case to the end user then for me to try to sell it to you. If you have a spare partition on your drive, give it a spin.

                        I think most of the selling points of Haiku are the user experience is really very good. It very responsive and attentive to my needs, offers great media playback " on supported hardware" out of the box.

                        Most things just work. they also work well.

                        If you interested in trying it hit my pm box and I can walk you through a setup and install some apps.

                        try using it for a good 2-3 hours straight for web browsing etc and then boot into your other OS.

                        Then we can debate how to get that user experience out to more people.

                        It must be seen and experienced to be belleived !.
                        i have tried it a few months ago, and it was pretty snappy but to me any OS can be snappy if you optimize it correctly. i thought i remembered some things not working and a lot of important tools missing. i'm sure for lightweight computers its a good choice. i've been trying to install it on this other computer i use but grub won't recognize it, so i'll get to virtualizing it instead.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                          [...] a lot of people are saying 2011 is linux's year to shine, and i'd have to agree with it.
                          Hate to break it to you but it's been "The year of the linux desktop" for the better part of a decade.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fat_chris View Post
                            Hate to break it to you but it's been "The year of the linux desktop" for the better part of a decade.
                            lol i've never known that, and in most situations those years had no reason to claim that. this year linux is being used in a LOT of desktop and mobile products and there are several more software and hardware companies supporting it compared to a year or 2 ago. i don't think linux will be the os of choice this year, or next year, or the year after that. but, i believe that 2011 is the BEGINNING of linux becoming a major desktop and mobile os, but not recognized as a significant recognized contender.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                              i have tried it a few months ago, and it was pretty snappy but to me any OS can be snappy if you optimize it correctly. i thought i remembered some things not working and a lot of important tools missing. i'm sure for lightweight computers its a good choice. i've been trying to install it on this other computer i use but grub won't recognize it, so i'll get to virtualizing it instead.
                              its hardly optimized currently. Hell its still running a big heavy load of debugger code currently. It is snappy by design. Alot of fix's have been implemented recently, now sdl games and alot of opengl games work" but do to a lack of hardware support they run pretty slow" so thats why the need for gallium.

                              the networking stuff is getting pretty close to completion, the list goes on. several people use grub with haiku with no problem. you can always boot off a cd and bypass grub but thats a pain.

                              How many OS's do you have ? I find the haiku bootmanager very simple and easy to use personally.

                              Comment

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