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Mesa Now Supports A Bit More Of OpenGL 3.0

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  • #16
    Originally posted by elanthis View Post
    Nope. Open means that the standard is available to all, and that the standard itself is not proprietary. The fact that something in that standard is patented is an unfortunate coincidence, not intentional.
    I find that extremelly hard to believe. Also, I don't grant standardization bodies a monopoly on the use of the word "open". Actually, the doublespeak definition of "open standard" that you refer to is by no means what institutions such as the EU and other countries across the globe understand by that term.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by yotambien View Post
      I find that extremelly hard to believe. Also, I don't grant standardization bodies a monopoly on the use of the word "open". Actually, the doublespeak definition of "open standard" that you refer to is by no means what institutions such as the EU and other countries across the globe understand by that term.
      Indeed. Microsoft's definition of "open standard" is interesting:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_st...27s_definition
      Vijay Kapoor, national technology officer, Microsoft, defines what open standards are as follows: "Let's look at what an open standard means: 'open' refers to it being royalty-free, while 'standard' means a technology approved by formalised committees that are open to participation by all interested parties and operate on a consensus basis."

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      • #18
        Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
        Indeed. Microsoft's definition of "open standard" is interesting:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_st...27s_definition
        Vijay Kapoor, national technology officer, Microsoft, defines what open standards are as follows: "Let's look at what an open standard means: 'open' refers to it being royalty-free, while 'standard' means a technology approved by formalised committees that are open to participation by all interested parties and operate on a consensus basis."
        Translation: You are free to do what we tell you to do and you are not free to do what we don't tell you to do or tell you not to do.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
          Translation: You are free to do what we tell you to do and you are not free to do what we don't tell you to do or tell you not to do.
          That's quite the way Microshaft does things. They don't want their customers to have free choice

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          • #20
            Originally posted by elanthis View Post
            About 13 more years for the floating-point patent.
            Yay for math being patented.

            Everyone needs to help spread the word to fight patents, and I really wish companies would join together to do so as well. And no, the Open Invention Network doesn't count, because it's just a patent pool, and that simply reaffirms patents. They need to be fraught against, not reaffirmed.

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            • #21
              The risk with these features being in separate branches is bitrot. Even if they, say the float one, apply now, will they in Mesa 7.12?

              Would be nice if someone outside of these patents' influence would keep these features alive. Perhaps it would even become the de-facto Mesa source for everyone who doesn't give a shit about the sw patents.

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              • #22
                @droidhacker & @DeepDayze:

                What the fuck, guys, did you even read the quoted text? It defines "open standards" as technologies that are (a) free to implement and use and (b) formalized by committees that are open to outside participation.

                According to this definition, HTML is an open standard, whereas H.264 or DirectX aren't. OpenGL falls into a gray zone, as it contains a few parts that are not free to implement.

                How the hell does this translate to that stuff you said?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by curaga View Post
                  The risk with these features being in separate branches is bitrot. Even if they, say the float one, apply now, will they in Mesa 7.12?

                  Would be nice if someone outside of these patents' influence would keep these features alive. Perhaps it would even become the de-facto Mesa source for everyone who doesn't give a shit about the sw patents.
                  That's what I (and someone else has, too) was trying to suggest; it hasn't really been addressed yet. I'd like to at least try getting a Mesa with all the bells and whistles, but first I'd have to know where to find these things. I know agd5f has some patches in his tree (FP-related, I think?), but the rest of what exists and may exist in the future....

                  How does the (still-missing) S3TC thing work? I hear it being called a plug-in, but how does that jive with Mesa? I've never heard of an interface for that; could these things be loaded at runtime as plugins?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                    How does the (still-missing) S3TC thing work? I hear it being called a plug-in, but how does that jive with Mesa? I've never heard of an interface for that; could these things be loaded at runtime as plugins?
                    S3TC is supported by an external library:

                    http://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/libtxc_dxtn/

                    When installing that, Mesa will report S3TC as supported. It doesn't work with the r600 Gallium driver though. Only with r600 classic and r300 Gallium.

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                    • #25
                      Does it actually work with r600c? Did anyone get an S3TC app running correctly using r600c?

                      I thought only r300g had it working.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                        S3TC is supported by an external library:

                        http://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/libtxc_dxtn/

                        When installing that, Mesa will report S3TC as supported. It doesn't work with the r600 Gallium driver though. Only with r600 classic and r300 Gallium.
                        Oh wow, see, everything I've seen anywhere (including the Mesa FAQ) still points to http://homepage.hispeed.ch/rscheideg...3tc_index.html (hence my confusion).

                        Okay, so it's a normal library. Might it be possible to write and distribute other possibly-encumbered extensions in the same manner? (I guess mesa just hooks it at runtime if the file exists?)

                        And what's wrong with it in r600g (if you happen to know)?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                          And what's wrong with it in r600g (if you happen to know)?
                          The support for compressing using s3tc has not been implemented yet. In other words, r600g can not make use of libtxc_dxtn at this time.

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