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Wine Devs Have Mixed Feelings Over Direct3D In Gallium3D

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  • Wine Devs Have Mixed Feelings Over Direct3D In Gallium3D

    Phoronix: Wine Devs Have Mixed Feelings Over Direct3D In Gallium3D

    Two days ago we reported on Direct3D being natively implemented in Gallium3D that now allows Direct3D (the 3D portion of the DirectX API) to work on Linux via this advanced graphics driver architecture and unlike Wine's implementation it does not simply translate the calls to OpenGL. This has generated much interest among developers and end-users with there being more than 200 comments in our forums and plenty of discussion elsewhere too. However, some Wine developers seem to be in objection to this work...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODYyNw

  • #2
    So, the Wine devs don't want to use a feature that could make their software better?? What a shocker :P It's like they have some sort of deal with microsoft to insure that wine continues to suck.

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    • #3
      I don't see why this would rattle Microsoft's cage anymore than Wine itself would.

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      • #4
        I think there's simply fear due to it being Microsoft designed tech.

        That's all there is too it. But before some people start drawing any hasty conclusions as to whether it should be thrown out of or not, let's check with some actual lawyers first?

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        • #5
          +1, v!ncent

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Chewi View Post
            I don't see why this would rattle Microsoft's cage anymore than Wine itself would.
            I wonder that too. Could someone clarify why people believe that MS is OK with one D3D implementation (actually, an almost *full* DirectX one) in Wine, but not OK with the one in Gallium?

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            • #7
              I'm a bit disappointed by the reaction of the wine devs on this. Don't know what to make of it. I hope they can work out any issues and will work together with Luca, because it's probably the only chance we have to not make wine suck on the open drivers. So I hope they think about that and, and not only about Nvidia blob and Apple.

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              • #8
                Meanwhile, Luca has committed Wine DLLs that use this state tracker so that in fact Wine can now hook into Gallium3D for this Microsoft Direct3D acceleration on the GPU (or on the CPU if using LLVMpipe).
                Can anyone test this? Phoronix?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by monraaf View Post
                  I'm a bit disappointed by the reaction of the wine devs on this.
                  Aside from that I agree with you, you can't ignore that ReactOS had stopped for an audit for a long time due to this: http://marc.info/?l=ros-dev&m=118775346131642&w=2
                  I'm sure nobody wants that to happen with Wine. Wine is already playing catchup as it is...

                  Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

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                  • #10
                    I do know about what happened with ReactOS. But I at least get the impression that this implementation was built on the basis of what is a very public and well understood API, unlike the Windows internals. Could Luca comment on whether there was actually any reverse engineering involved?

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                    • #11
                      Wine devs are known to reject anything that does not fit into their product vision. Remember WinePulse by Art Taylor, there was a flame war in the bugtracker, but they just ignored all users' arguments. My guess if this new D3D tracker will mature to the state when it can be used to run real apps, it can live as a dedicated project, with distros making custom wine builds using it.
                      So, no worries.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by devius View Post
                        So, the Wine devs don't want to use a feature that could make their software better?? What a shocker :P It's like they have some sort of deal with microsoft to insure that wine continues to suck.
                        You mean "ensure", not "insure".

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                        • #13
                          Lawyers Cost Money

                          Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                          I think there's simply fear due to it being Microsoft designed tech.

                          That's all there is too it. But before some people start drawing any hasty conclusions as to whether it should be thrown out of or not, let's check with some actual lawyers first?
                          On the face of it, a plausible idea. But where this idea fails badly is the practicality. Lawyers cost money. You know, that stuff your parents give you

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gordboy View Post
                            On the face of it, a plausible idea. But where this idea fails badly is the practicality. Lawyers cost money. You know, that stuff your parents give you
                            Isn't that what the FSF is for? Though whether they'd want to touch this is another matter. Maybe the EFF instead?

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                            • #15
                              I think that it is very important to STOP COPYING MS!!!
                              Drop this D3D nonsense and focus on things made for linux!

                              Wine has been nothing more than a SEVERE SETBACK in the fight to compete Linux against MS. It serves as an EXCUSE for software vendors to make ONLY MS BINARIES.... and then you get a disfunctional POS when trying to make said binaries run in Wine (because wine is a nasty hack) rather than having proper binaries built for the platform.

                              And so the software vendors make no attempt to support linux, their software ends up NOT running well enough on linux, and those who try eventually go back to windoze because the software they like will only run there.


                              As for the legal questions around a D3D implementation... VERY VERY IMPORTANT. And asking a lawyer does NOT give you a meaningful answer. EVEN IF IT IS LEGAL TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, MS can STILL make life miserable. The ONLY way that the legal issues can POSSIBLY be resolved is to get MS to sign off on the legality of the code, and you all know that this will NEVER happen.

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