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Talking About EGL In Mesa On Linux

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  • Talking About EGL In Mesa On Linux

    Phoronix: Talking About EGL In Mesa On Linux

    A few days back I reported on the first operating system where you may see the Wayland Display Server used rather than an X.Org Server after talking with Kristian Høgsberg while in Toulouse. At the X.Org Developer Summit' he talked to everyone about EGL in Mesa, which also plays an important role with Wayland...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODYyMA

  • #2
    All I can is wow! Awesome!

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    • #3
      It's really nice to have EGL in MESA. But does anyone know a tutorial or something on EGL? Or is the specification the only documentation out there? Thanks in advance.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nils View Post
        It's really nice to have EGL in MESA. But does anyone know a tutorial or something on EGL? Or is the specification the only documentation out there? Thanks in advance.
        you might find some helpful examples in the mesa-demos repository:
        http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/demos/tree/src/egl

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        • #5
          Quality is of sound is just poor. Have in mind that there are none native english speakers here too. While native english person can take advantage of this video, I, as opposed to them can't
          I bet I am not the only one...

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          • #6
            As a non-native english speaker I still have problems with basic grammer and making my own sentences. However I have zero problems listening and reading english whatsoever.

            I have yet to meat someone IRL that has more problems listening and reading english as opposed to writing and speaking the language

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Nils View Post
              It's really nice to have EGL in MESA. But does anyone know a tutorial or something on EGL? Or is the specification the only documentation out there? Thanks in advance.
              From wikipedia:
              EGL (Embedded-System Graphics Library) "is an interface between Khronos rendering APIs such as OpenGL ES or OpenVG and the underlying native platform window system. It handles graphics context management, surface/buffer binding, and rendering synchronization and enables high-performance, accelerated, mixed-mode 2D and 3D rendering using other Khronos APIs."[1] EGL is managed by the non-profit technology consortium Khronos Group.

              Basically; you cannot use straight OpenGL for a windowing system because OpenGL lacks much of the APIs necessary to control the display, mode setting, multi application rendering buffers, and such things. It's designed for writing 3D applications and not windowing systems.

              This is why the original attempts at created 3D desktops using things like XGL X window manager couldn't work.

              Well... EGL is the part that was created to fill in the gap and make windowing systems using standardized APIs possible.

              As long as you have a driver for your video card that supports EGL then you can run Wayland... and now Mesa has support for EGL.

              ==========================

              Now all we need, besides improving Wayland and driver support in general, is a X.org DDX that targets Wayland.

              Why do we need a Xorg DDX for Wayland (you may ask), well because.....

              Xorg is made up of two parts: Device Independent X (DIX) and Device Dependent X (DDX). DIX is the part that applications use such as Xlib and the X networking protocol.

              DDX is the part that interacts with your hardware. With Linux the 'DDX' is called 'xfree'. It uses various modules to provide direct hardware support for hardware. Like the Intel X driver or the 'NV' nvidia driver. Well Xorg provides X support for Windows (xwin ddx) and OS X (darwin ddx). This is why you can display X Windows applications on OS X.

              Well, with a Wayland DDX then distributions can start switching over to using Wayland instead of Xfree and still keep compatibility with all your applications.

              No need to sacrifice X networking, no need to write new Xfree drivers for each new piece of hardware. Just run X on top of Wayland and that is all you'll ever need. As long as Wayland has EGL support in the hardware and such then that's it... no more X hardware issues.

              Then things like Gallium start to make more and more sense.

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              • #8
                Is anyone aware of any WM that has plans at targeting EGL? It seems as though this would be the obvious thing for all WM to do. Perhaps I am missing something. Is the issue support? I don't see why this would need support from the card (assuming the card supports at least OGL).
                Perplexing...

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                • #9
                  @Liam,
                  Why EGL? You'll end up combining it with OpenGL anyways...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                    @Liam,
                    Why EGL? You'll end up combining it with OpenGL anyways...
                    I thought the idea was to use EGL instead of something like GLUT or GLX.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ex-Cyber View Post
                      I thought the idea was to use EGL instead of something like GLUT or GLX.
                      Well the only reason that would be viable would be for embedded systems. Embedded systems will have Wayland in the future.

                      And you would also just shift the handeling from GLUT to the WM, making the WM do the GLUT work itself, which is pretty pointless to me. Or am I missing something here?

                      Also the presentation about mixing API's would make the advantages of EGL totaly redundant.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                        As a non-native english speaker I still have problems with basic grammer and making my own sentences. However I have zero problems listening and reading english whatsoever.

                        I have yet to meat someone IRL that has more problems listening and reading english as opposed to writing and speaking the language
                        That depends on a number of things, but two of them are particularly important: your native language and the king of foreign language education you received. In the same way that it's relatively easy for an italian to learn spanish or portuguese, it's probably easier for, say, dutch people to learn english. Spanish has a grand total of 5 vocalic sounds, whereas english may have more than 20 depending on the accent. Learning to use such a complex musical instrument as your voice in completely new ways when you are no longer a kid isn't at all easy. Of course, it goes both ways, native english speakers usually have a hard time learning romance languages, although their set of problems include having to face a more rigid and complex grammar than their own.

                        As for the education, I remember doing basically grammar, vocabulary, reading and writing. Listening and speaking was almost absent, and in any case none of our teachers were native speakers. You can see now why a lot of people have a much higher command in reading and writing than in listening and speaking. But other factors count as well. If you are from a country with a language spoken by millions and millions, there's some lazyness towards learning that of others (english speaking people are the perfect example here), so movies get dubbed, absolutely everything is translated and in general there's some stupid sense of proudness and resistance to anything foreign. That certain nationalist movements across europe are, as of 2010, pushing in this same direction, is astonishing (but I'll stop with politics here : ).

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                        • #13
                          Subs are soooooo freaking anoying. When I watch an english movie without subs I usualy don't even notice it. It's only after a while that I think "Oh wait, this is english xD". But with subs it keeps distracting and so I keep looking at it while I don't want to -_-'

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                          • #14
                            Hehe, same here. Subtitles make you lazy. If there's something to read I'll read it even if I don't want to. But they are necessary if you don't understand the language or the accent is particularly strong (Brokeback Mountain anyone?). What really is disgusting is dubbing.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by yotambien View Post
                              Hehe, same here. Subtitles make you lazy. If there's something to read I'll read it even if I don't want to. But they are necessary if you don't understand the language or the accent is particularly strong (Brokeback Mountain anyone?). What really is disgusting is dubbing.
                              There's no dubbing in my country (only those stupid wash stuff commercials). Is dubbing still so strong in Germany?

                              The only time I found subs to be useful is in Alien 1 on DVD. Sometimes it's just like whispering >.< That realy sucks when you want to keep the volume down in case of explosions (not that ther are any in Alien...). Whoever thought that it was cool to have explosions sound 10 times as loud as the dialogs needs to be shot!

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