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More Details On The OpenGL Situation In KDE's KWin

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  • More Details On The OpenGL Situation In KDE's KWin

    Phoronix: More Details On The OpenGL Situation In KDE's KWin

    A week ago we reported on the open-source GPU drivers causing headaches for KDE users when attempting to use the KWin compositing manager under certain conditions. Version 4.5 of the KDE Software Compilation has a few improvements to KWin and while the compositing manager does check for optional OpenGL extensions, the open-source Mesa drivers don't always do things right and it's resulted in some bugs and other issues inflicting KDE users...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODU5Mg

  • #2
    His hardware is supported by Mesa (and very well so), but when he's too lazy to install the drivers and relies on what is shipped by his outdated distro (or choose another distro), well, that's not a good thing for a developer, to put it kindly.

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    • #3
      Well, apparently he's an unpaid volunteer doing all this in his free time. So if he just wants to develop for the Nvidia blob, then that's his right. IMO the failure here is with KDE for relying on him to provide such an essential part of the desktop.

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      • #4
        The point is that he claims that he doesn't "want" to develop for the blob but that he doesn't have any other choice, which is not true. He can update his X/Mesa/Driver stack on his own or switch to another distro.

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        • #5
          Yeah I didn't buy that either

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          • #6
            Even more so since installing a second distro just for test runs with dual boot is even easier than switching your main one.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
              His hardware is supported by Mesa (and very well so), but when he's too lazy to install the drivers and relies on what is shipped by his outdated distro (or choose another distro), well, that's not a good thing for a developer, to put it kindly.
              That's a pretty lame excuse. Xorg/Mesa drivers are the broken components, not KWin. That's a fact.
              Those paid full-time Xorg/Mesa programmers should get off their lazy asses and fix their god damn drivers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KAMiKAZOW View Post
                That's a pretty lame excuse. Xorg/Mesa drivers are the broken components, not KWin. That's a fact.
                Those paid full-time Xorg/Mesa programmers should get off their lazy asses and fix their god damn drivers.
                And what does this have to do with a KWin dev not wanting to test his code against the open drivers, allowing him to file bug reports to X.Org? Which is entirely up to him, I'll give you that, but why make excuses about an imaginary inability to do so?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KAMiKAZOW View Post
                  Those paid full-time Xorg/Mesa programmers should get off their lazy asses and fix their god damn drivers.
                  They're a work in progress. For the most part, I don't hear those devs making lame excuses about why their stuff doesn't run perfectly yet (unlike this Kwin developer or Adobe).

                  At any rate, patches and useful bug reports would probably be more helpful than whining about it on phoronix.com

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                  • #10
                    what ?! what a giant pile of FUD >
                    i have radeon 4730 (_R770_) with mesa(no gallium), libdrm, xf86-video-ati from git and 2.6.35 kernel AND KDE 4.5.1. compositing works fine (even though i don't use it and enable only once in a while to test driver updates) and X never crashes.

                    "blur" effect does not blur anything however - all still looks clear as it wasn't enabled (or maybe there is some obscure misconfiguration) but there is no such thing as artefacts or crashes.
                    ...if you not count shitload of regressions in "OMG-stable-bug_fixing-4.5-release" of KDE which constantly kill kwin (effects disabled) and make plasma leak memory.

                    if you use something like "Debian Stable" it doesn't mean your system automatically becomes, literally, stable as rock. it means that your system preventing you from encountering any drastic changes - _good and bad_.
                    i'm sorry that we live in a world where corporate greed and stupidity result in shitty work of otherwise functioning product but there are efforts to change that and very fruitful ones.
                    and in order to benefit from those you MUST get ahold of those changes _or_ wait for their "stabilization" and point your attention in other areas for a time being.

                    it's not optional, it's either former or later.
                    but dude "just doesn't have a time" for such silliness.
                    probably, it "should just work" ? riiiight...

                    and, "lack of communication" my ass. he doesn't even try to answer to Marek Olk there and here - OSS graphic stack developers all over the damn place.

                    his only problem is that he do NOT CARE MUCH.
                    but it's ok - "desktop effects" is a useless bullshit anyway. unless there is some truly 3D desktop environment based on different usability concepts and not just fake sense of depth it's all just doesn't matter much.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                      The point is that he claims that he doesn't "want" to develop for the blob but that he doesn't have any other choice, which is not true. He can update his X/Mesa/Driver stack on his own or switch to another distro.
                      So could you, and you could have reported the bug too. As could have any KDE user, or any Mesa developer too, for that matter.

                      He's an unpaid volunteer coder. He tested with what was available to him, and he added an optional effect.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dfx. View Post
                        "blur" effect does not blur anything however - all still looks clear as it wasn't enabled (or maybe there is some obscure misconfiguration) but there is no such thing as artefacts or crashes.
                        Blur works fine with Mesa Git and 2.6.35 here (HD4870):



                        However, bypassing KWin's internal GL checks might be required for it to work. See this post:

                        http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=19

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's easy to point fingers at people who do nothing and say "at least report it".

                          But he does a lot of work. So what if maybe he doesn't really have that many time to mess with testing a lot of configs, hey that's where the community can help. It's not like kwin just materializes hours before KDE releases -- anyone can run a trunk build of kwin (regardless of using KDE at all) and test it out.

                          Of course it would be nice if he went to THAT extra trouble, but hey, if all of us here and commenting on that blog did that much for the free desktop, it would probably rock even more.

                          Honestly even I get a little tired of trying combos of kernel+X+mesa to get free drivers rocking. And when you find that perfect combo, dang you discover that kernel broke some other hardware you had.

                          So here's my 0.02 (euro) cents.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                            So could you, and you could have reported the bug too. As could have any KDE user, or any Mesa developer too, for that matter.
                            No, we couldn't. KWin disables stuff with Mesa drivers; we never get to see it so we can report it. Only the devs know the internals well enough to make out whether something is working as intended or not.

                            Visible bugs get reported (I've filed some myself.) What we can't see, we can't report, obviously.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                              And what does this have to do with a KWin dev not wanting to test his code against the open drivers, allowing him to file bug reports to X.Org? Which is entirely up to him, I'll give you that, but why make excuses about an imaginary inability to do so?
                              He is a volunteer. If his favorite distro is configured in a way that Mesa drivers don't work with his GPU, that's not his fault.
                              Volunteer developers don't owe you or anyone else anything! He is not obligated to run a gazillion distributions with trunk builds of Xorg and Mesa.
                              No! It's the paid Xorg/Mesa developers duty to test their drivers with with the most common composite window managers (currently Compiz and KWin, in the future Mutter as well). The current messy situation wouldn't have happened if the well paid developers did their job in the first place.
                              And in case there are too few paid Xorg/Mesa developers, maybe some Linux distributors should put some money where it actually counts instead of spending it on a design team that makes purple backgrounds and moves window buttons to the left side....

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